All things scorecard

[jim8flog]

Although, perhaps it is not something that will be noticed straight away, due to the limitations at the moment in submitting scorecards due to Covid. Our club have asked one player from each group to submit the scores for all players on one card, whilst individuals enter their scores on the App. So, it would be harsh to DQ Players B or C if Player A, who handed in the card, got their handicap wrong.

This is one area where I am glad our club has opted for " players marks their own card and verbally agrees the score with marker"*. A player is now responsible for their own mistakes.

*Marker is required to keep the player's score in the markers column on their own card so it can be further checked if needed.

As someone who has inputted lots of cards I much prefer cards with just one score on them, easier to read and makes the job a lot quicker.

 

[Old Skier]

This is one area where I am glad our club has opted for " players marks their own card and verbally agrees the score with marker"*. A player is now responsible for their own mistakes.

*Marker is required to keep the player's score in the markers column on their own card so it can be further checked if needed.

As someone who has inputted lots of cards I much prefer cards with just one score on them, easier to read and makes the job a lot quicker.

I encourage those that are able to enter their scores on the HDID App but completing their cards as you suggest for a random check and placing in the comp box. The app now allows for the markers name to be entered and a signature on screen using the same method as signing for your parcel.

 

[Swango1980]

This is one area where I am glad our club has opted for " players marks their own card and verbally agrees the score with marker"*. A player is now responsible for their own mistakes.

*Marker is required to keep the player's score in the markers column on their own card so it can be further checked if needed.

As someone who has inputted lots of cards I much prefer cards with just one score on them, easier to read and makes the job a lot quicker.

I agree. I have suggested the way we do it has drawbacks. Each individual has to enter scores electronically, so these can all be checked via the one returned card with all scores (players will agree verbally after round as well). The only issue is that, if it is if Player A is handing in the card (with Player A, B and C scores), the Committee have to trust Player A got his own scores correct, and entered them correctly electronically. Because, some players who may be playing with Player A do not necessarily question his scores and are more interested in their own score. I thought it would be better if every player should send a photo of their scorecard, with their own score and at least one other (if not all 3), so that there are at least 2 or 3 separate cards to cross check everyone's scores. We've a new competition committee, so I believe that was on their agenda.

 

[rulie]

What are all these cross-checks? A player is only required to certify his own score and the player he is marker for. When I'm marker, I usually obliterate my own score before giving the card/score to the player in order to eliminate confusion.

 

[Old Skier]

What are all these cross-checks? A player is only required to certify his own score and the player he is marker for. When I'm marker, I usually obliterate my own score before giving the card/score to the player in order to eliminate confusion.

How is it confusing or don’t your cards have a markers column

 

[rulie]

How is it confusing or don’t your cards have a markers column

Sure they have a marker's column, but I'm not obligated to use it; even if I do, scribbling though it with a sharpie makes it clear to the person receiving the card which scores to use (and which not). Many of our cards have a tear-off portion for the marker's scores, and they are almost always torn off by the marker.
My point is that the Committee doesn't need the marker's scores for anything - his scores are on his card.

 

[jim8flog]

What are all these cross-checks? A player is only required to certify his own score and the player he is marker for. When I'm marker, I usually obliterate my own score before giving the card/score to the player in order to eliminate confusion.

Where I play players do not swap cards.

 

[rulie]

Where I play players do not swap cards.

Is that this year (Covid) or has it been that way forever?

 

[jim8flog]

Is that this year (Covid) or has it been that way forever?

Covid rule

We require the markers name to be legible and do not require their signature.

However it is something I would like to see forever. As previously said a player becomes responsible for their own mistakes on the card.

 

[Colin L]

Covid rule

We require the markers name to be legible and do not require their signature.

However it is something I would like to see forever. As previously said a player becomes responsible for their own mistakes on the card.

The player was previously, is and will continue to be responsible for his or her mistakes. I'm getting a bit lost as to your point.

 

[jim8flog]

The player was previously, is and will continue to be responsible for his or her mistakes. I'm getting a bit lost as to your point.

It is the marker marking the card under normal circumstances it may easy for a player to fail to spot a mistake made by marker particularly in something like a stableford comp when they have both agreed points are right.

It has taken me years to get the guys I play with in to the habit of checking grosses and I have even had a case of an ex captain/committee member refuse to do it chucking the card at me with " I know how to mark a card" comment and storming off. From the card I got back he clearly did not! I had to take the card to another committee member to get the alterations agreed.

One other 'bonus' is that it puts a bit more pressure on players to return their cards so they can be used for comparison purposes.

 

[apj0524]

This is our card ready for when we play again under WHS, which is pretty standard from Eagle, and has boxes for HI, CH & PH so whilst we (M&H) are communicating the rules state CH has to be right and they are only responsible for Gross scores we are trying to educate and communicate the members on how they can get the CH and PH from their HI, which I am sure in six months will be second nature. If its not I'll resign lol

 

[Swango1980]

What are all these cross-checks? A player is only required to certify his own score and the player he is marker for. When I'm marker, I usually obliterate my own score before giving the card/score to the player in order to eliminate confusion.

Due to Covid, if only Player A submits the card for all players, with only Player A's signature, who actually is certifying his score!? That is why I said multiple cards should be ideally submitted, so Committee can see each players score is certified.

 

[Colin L]

It is the marker marking the card under normal circumstances it may easy for a player to fail to spot a mistake made by marker particularly in something like a stableford comp when they have both agreed points are right.

It has taken me years to get the guys I play with in to the habit of checking grosses and I have even had a case of an ex captain/committee member refuse to do it chucking the card at me with " I know how to mark a card" comment and storming off. From the card I got back he clearly did not! I had to take the card to another committee member to get the alterations agreed.

One other 'bonus' is that it puts a bit more pressure on players to return their cards so they can be used for comparison purposes.

I get more and more confused. The marker is not under normal circumstances responsible for mistakes; the player is. The marker may well be the source of a mistake but if the player has not checked their card carefully enough and allows the error to slip through, that's their responsibility. There is, of course, no need to agree stableford points with your marker. Check and agree 18 single (you hope) digit numbers and the job's done.

I get a sort of impression that you're over over-complicating the business and giving yourself a lot of unnecessary work.

 

[jim8flog]

I get more and more confused. The marker is not under normal circumstances responsible for mistakes; the player is. The marker may well be the source of a mistake but if the player has not checked their card carefully enough and allows the error to slip through, that's their responsibility. There is, of course, no need to agree stableford points with your marker. Check and agree 18 single (you hope) digit numbers and the job's done.

I get a sort of impression that you're over over-complicating the business and giving yourself a lot of unnecessary work.

On the other side of the coin.

What do you see wrong with a player marking their own card and the marker checking it is correct?

 

[Old Skier]

On the other side of the coin.

What do you see wrong with a player marking their own card and the marker checking it is correct?

In the age of self inputting scores it’s about time, even outside of COVID players just mark their own cards.

 

[Swango1980]

In the age of self inputting scores it’s about time, even outside of COVID players just mark their own cards.

My only worry about that is, at least 50% of the times I play, at least one person claims to get a lower score than I counted for them, or the other guy in the group who was marking for them counted. 50% is just my perception, but I am sure we've all played with people who have counted a lower number for themselves than they actually got. Perhaps we have been guilty of it ourselves, even innocently. So, I certainly wouldn't want a player to simply mark their own score without any evidence that someone else has certified it (maybe you were not implying this). I'm pretty sure some people out there never score more than a 10, regardless of how bad they played the hole

 

[Old Skier]

My only worry about that is, at least 50% of the times I play, at least one person claims to get a lower score than I counted for them, or the other guy in the group who was marking for them counted. 50% is just my perception, but I am sure we've all played with people who have counted a lower number for themselves than they actually got. Perhaps we have been guilty of it ourselves, even innocently. So, I certainly wouldn't want a player to simply mark their own score without any evidence that someone else has certified it (maybe you were not implying this). I'm pretty sure some people out there never score more than a 10, regardless of how bad they played the hole

I understand some people's concerns but there are two points I'd like to make.

If I say my score is X then the marker puts X on the card although he can argue his point in front of the committee.

Is the marker going to stand over the player when he enters his score either on his app or on the PSI.

 

[rulie]

I understand some people's concerns but there are two points I'd like to make.

If I say my score is X then the marker puts X on the card although he can argue his point in front of the committee.

Is the marker going to stand over the player when he enters his score either on his app or on the PSI.

Absolutely correct - that is the marker's responsibility. A marker is not a referee.

 

[Swango1980]

I understand some people's concerns but there are two points I'd like to make.

If I say my score is X then the marker puts X on the card although he can argue his point in front of the committee.

Is the marker going to stand over the player when he enters his score either on his app or on the PSI.

If you say your score is X, your marker would say, no your score was Y. Both would discuss it, agree, then the marker puts Y on the card.

You then put your scores in computer, so hopefully you have already agreed the scores the marker put on the card. If you make an error when entering on the computer, at least the committee have the card to cross check. This should at least be done for those in the prizes I'd imagine.

If you were left to simply mark your own card, you would have just put X, and no one would be any the wiser.