Aimpoint

[6535]

😂
It’s only waffle when your not informed properly. Isn’t it King amongst men. If that ain’t a superior statement then I don’t know what is.

Let’s say I’ve got no time for you and the same goes for you as well, unless you want to carry on with the slagging. Up to you.

 

[6535]

The science behind Aimpoint's calculation of required line is irrefutable. This has been shown time and again on PGA Tour coverage and it has received award(s) for it.

The issue the Aimpoint guys are trying to address is how to convert that complicated calculation, that uses known measurements, (they go out before a tournament and 'map' every green with small spirit levels) to a quick and easy assessment where several of the measurements required for the calculation are unknown. I think they have found a very reasonable approach!

Use of Aimpoint is not going to mean that a player will sink every putt. The player has to determine the slope and hit the putt 'correctly'. But if it improves the percentage of putts that drop, then it's money well spent imo. In the Pro world, it's probably better that it provides certainty, as they are far more likely to hit putts well than we Ams. And the value of a shot or 2 over the course of a tournament is considerable!

It may not be something they need (I don't need it), or may be considered poor value for money (compared with other Golf tools it's not horrendously priced), but to simply write it off as something only the deluded use is simply daft!

I can't really see why anyone should actually be arguing against it! If it's not something you need, or wish to use, don't bother with it. But I can't see the point of arguing that others shouldn't use it - except, perhaps, from a time cost pov which has been addressed by 'Express read'. I'd certainly argue that buying the latest Driver every year is a significantly greater wast of money!

And that should be the end of the discussion.

 

[Jacko_G]

The science behind Aimpoint's calculation of required line is irrefutable. This has been shown time and again on PGA Tour coverage and it has received award(s) for it.

The issue the Aimpoint guys are trying to address is how to convert that complicated calculation, that uses known measurements, (they go out before a tournament and 'map' every green with small spirit levels) to a quick and easy assessment where several of the measurements required for the calculation are unknown. I think they have found a very reasonable approach!

Use of Aimpoint is not going to mean that a player will sink every putt. The player has to determine the slope and hit the putt 'correctly'. But if it improves the percentage of putts that drop, then it's money well spent imo. In the Pro world, it's probably better that it provides certainty, as they are far more likely to hit putts well than we Ams. And the value of a shot or 2 over the course of a tournament is considerable!

It may not be something they need (I don't need it), or may be considered poor value for money (compared with other Golf tools it's not horrendously priced), but to simply write it off as something only the deluded use is simply daft!

I can't really see why anyone should actually be arguing against it! If it's not something you need, or wish to use, don't bother with it. But I can't see the point of arguing that others shouldn't use it - except, perhaps, from a time cost pov which has been addressed by 'Express read'. I'd certainly argue that buying the latest Driver every year is a significantly greater wast of money!

And there is the "CRUX" of the argument. A huge big fat if. Bottom line is it doesn't give you any measurable advantage over non aimpoint users other that in your own head, confidence and pre shot routine.

And likewise I can't see why you should be arguing for it when I don't need to bother doing it. And that is after doing the course.

 

[Jacko_G]

😂
It’s only waffle when your not informed properly. Isn’t it King amongst men. If that ain’t a superior statement then I don’t know what is.

Let’s say I’ve got no time for you and the same goes for you as well, unless you want to carry on with the slagging. Up to you.

Wrong as per.

Aimpoint has no scientific proof that it makes you putt better than a non aimpoint user that is fact. Come back when you can prove otherwise. I am an undisputed King amongst men don't ever forget that please.

 

[6535]

Then simply move on naysayer(s) go on other threads and let us superior, deluded green readers talk about the clutch system to our hearts content. 👍🏻

 

[SteveJay]

I am not a user, and admit I am skeptical of claims about it being scientific, but surely this is a technique like loads of others in golf.

What this thread seems to imply (to me) is that all users are consistent. Just like any other part of the game there will be those Aimpoint users who are good at it, i.e. can sense slope consistently and convert that into a percentage.......always hold their fingers the right distance for the pace etc etc). They may already be good green readers looking for an edge and may therefore be strong advocates of the method. Some Aimpoint users, despite the course, will be less able but will also strongly defend the method due to their investment.

Having spoken to users I know there needs to be practice to calibrate slopes with your feet, so not all Aimpoint users are equal. Like any other part of the game it needs practice and isn't the holy grail.

Like different putting grips etc. Aimpoint will help some but not all (I struggle to sense anything but a severe slope with my feet) and you still need to be a competent putter to maximise the benefit. As most golfers and many pros use other ways to read the green it clearly is not the optimal way of reading greens for everyone. The sooner that, and the fact it is just another technique requiring skill and practice, is accepted such threads like this will run and run!

 

[6535]

Get your facts right. I’ve never implied that Aimpoint makes you putt better. To putt better you practise putting technique not green reading. I think you got HUOA syndrome more like.

 

[Jamesbrown]

Listen to the superiority complex of a single figure handicap. Must be true guys cos a Billy big boots thinks so.

Great rant shame 99% of it is waffle.

No superiority complex here. Just realistic. And I’m not single figures unless I can drop a 4 under hcp round in between now and season end.

Just no patience for morons.
When people are affectively denouncing green reading by using gravity, and the most sensitive sense you have. it sort of blows your mind.

People claiming it’s a marketing sham, yet you don’t have to go on a course for it, or pay to learn it. It’s available on the internet.

If youve not got the knowledge of the technique then you can’t really refute it.
You can try, but in reality it’s just an unsubstantiated opinion, and a bullpoo one at that.

 

[cliveb]

The impression I get is that a lot of the Aimpoint nay-sayers seem to think it's being presented as some kind of rigid method that works the same for everyone.
But as far as I can make out, the technique requires calibration for each individual player.
You try over & over and eventually arrive at a combination of estimated slope, number of fingers and bend of arm that works for you.

Example: Player A feels a 2% slope and holds out 2 fingers with a bent arm. Meanwhile player B thinks it's a 3% slope but through experience knows he needs to hold 3 fingers out with a straight arm. And player C has very fat fingers and uses just 1. They have all arrived at this through personal calibration and discovered what works for them. And if it works, that's fine.

If Aimpoint expects every player to arrive at the same combination of slope, fingers and arm bend, then clearly I have misunderstood.

 

[shortgame]

they go out before a tournament and 'map' every green with small spirit levels

Thank you. Finally an answer to a question I asked many pages back.

I don't think anyone questions the veracity of the Aimpoint lines shown on the PGA coverage. I'd always assumed those greens were mapped by advanced computer programs and tools, not by people using AP express.

It's the AP express bits that raised doubts about how the science of it works (how to know the individual green speeds, how the finger pointing works, how to differentiate between a slope of 1, 2, 3 etc.)


From all the helpful posts in here I wonder if there is now enough information to have a tinker with it on the practice green or is there other stuff only a certified instructor can provide?

I'm basing this on the fact each user obviously has to practice and fine tune it for them as individuals. (ie each individual determines what a 1, 2, 3 slope etc is for them, customise it for size of fingers etc)

Might be fun...

 

[chrisd]

The impression I get is that a lot of the Aimpoint nay-sayers seem to think it's being presented as some kind of rigid method that works the same for everyone.
But as far as I can make out, the technique requires calibration for each individual player.
You try over & over and eventually arrive at a combination of estimated slope, number of fingers and bend of arm that works for you.

Example: Player A feels a 2% slope and holds out 2 fingers with a bent arm. Meanwhile player B thinks it's a 3% slope but through experience knows he needs to hold 3 fingers out with a straight arm. And player C has very fat fingers and uses just 1. They have all arrived at this through personal calibration and discovered what works for them. And if it works, that's fine.

If Aimpoint expects every player to arrive at the same combination of slope, fingers and arm bend, then clearly I have misunderstood.

Spot on in relation to the individual players. Also playing different courses requires calibration for the speed of the greens as there's a huge difference in break between 9 and 12 on the stimp reading.

 

[Khamelion]

The impression I get is that a lot of the Aimpoint nay-sayers seem to think it's being presented as some kind of rigid method that works the same for everyone.
But as far as I can make out, the technique requires calibration for each individual player.
You try over & over and eventually arrive at a combination of estimated slope, number of fingers and bend of arm that works for you.

Example: Player A feels a 2% slope and holds out 2 fingers with a bent arm. Meanwhile player B thinks it's a 3% slope but through experience knows he needs to hold 3 fingers out with a straight arm. And player C has very fat fingers and uses just 1. They have all arrived at this through personal calibration and discovered what works for them. And if it works, that's fine.

If Aimpoint expects every player to arrive at the same combination of slope, fingers and arm bend, then clearly I have misunderstood.

Spot on. Why people are trying to understand the science behind Aimpoint I don't know, Aimpoint Express takes all the science out of the method and make the process unique to the individual, the way a person calibrates AE is unique to themselves, exactly as the example given above.

 

[Jacko_G]

No superiority complex here. Just realistic. And I’m not single figures unless I can drop a 4 under hcp round in between now and season end.

Just no patience for morons.
When people are affectively denouncing green reading by using gravity, and the most sensitive sense you have. it sort of blows your mind.

People claiming it’s a marketing sham, yet you don’t have to go on a course for it, or pay to learn it. It’s available on the internet.

If youve not got the knowledge of the technique then you can’t really refute it.
You can try, but in reality it’s just an unsubstantiated opinion, and a bullpoo one at that.

Gravity, reading a slope by your eyes does the same thing. What do you think processes the slope, it's not your feet its your brain which is fed by the information it receives from the eyes. The brain is the processing centre, just like it is for your eyes. For your information I do have the knowledge, although if you had read the thread in full you would have known that, therefore I can refute it if I so desire. Therefore your rant is "bullpoo" just like your rant that all higher handicap golfer can't chip, they just want to rely on equipment and Pro V's.

You've not added anything to the debate.

 

[Khamelion]

Gravity, reading a slope by your eyes does the same thing. What do you think processes the slope, it's not your feet its your brain which is fed by the information it receives from the eyes. The brain is the processing centre, just like it is for your eyes. For your information I do have the knowledge, although if you had read the thread in full you would have known that, therefore I can refute it if I so desire. Therefore your rant is "bullpoo" just like your rant that all higher handicap golfer can't chip, they just want to rely on equipment and Pro V's.

You've not added anything to the debate.

Some do read the slope using their eyes, but some find that when using their feet, if they close their eyes they get a better feel for the slope, I would also guess a lot of Aimpointers look at something other than the green when taking a read.

 

[bobmac]

Aimpoint is a waste of time and money....................................if you can't putt.
You might be brilliant at reading greens but a rubbish putter.

Learn how to putt first and you might find you don't need Aimpoint.

 

[Jacko_G]

Some do read the slope using their eyes, but some find that when using their feet, if they close their eyes they get a better feel for the slope, I would also guess a lot of Aimpointers look at something other than the green when taking a read.

Agree with you but ultimately this information is still processed by the brain, your feet don't have the ability to know they are on the slope its actually your brain telling your feet that.

 

[Beezerk]

When people are affectively denouncing green reading by using gravity, and the most sensitive sense you have.

I think you'll find there are some very very sensitive folk on here

 

[ademac]

I have to say that this thread in proper mental!
I wonder if anything in golf has ever been so divisive? (Apart from Tiger of course)

I think the actual putting stroke sometimes gets overlooked and dismissed as being an easy thing to do but in actual fact we would probably all be better off working on that than working on aimpoint or any other green reading technique.
End of the day we are all shite at golf and looking for ways to improve without having to work too hard, its just a shame thats not possible.....

 

[Khamelion]

End of the day we are all at golf and looking for ways to improve without having to work too hard, its just a shame thats not possible.....

You been spying on my game?

 

[shortgame]

Why people are trying to understand the science behind Aimpoint I don't know, Aimpoint Express takes all the science out of the method

I think for some of us it's purely because it's 'sold' as a scientific method. Then we question the science as the finger pointing method/straddling etc isn't scientific per se.

Thread has helped me learn more about it anyway 👍