Aimpoint is slow - FACT

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

More than happy to debate the merits (or not depending on your point of view) about Aimpoint or anything else. As long as you have a valid point and not just "it's a waste of time and money" then its good. I do think this will start to increase in popularity especially with Scott using it. Other pros will cotton on, and yes, putts will still be missed but once they see how much difference it makes to the amount of break compared to what they "see" it will gain momentum. Of course these guys are at the pinnacle of the game and so their green reading and technique are infinitely better than mine and most club players so any help I can get I'll take.

And as soon it becomes that commonly adopted by the pros the powers will decide that it is diminishing the value of an essential skill of the game - reading the green. And they will ban it. Bit like belly putting really.

 

[3565]

Erm.....one that leaves most putts short. Guess that makes me a die'er

Well the good news is being a Die'er you get to use the full width of the cup. If your a rammer you reduce the size of the hole considerably for every foot past you miss. Aimpoint advocate 6-12" past the hole is maximum.

 

[Foxholer]

And as soon it becomes that commonly adopted by the pros the powers will decide that it is diminishing the value of an essential skill of the game - reading the green. And they will ban it. Bit like belly putting really.

:rofl:

 

[3565]

And as soon it becomes that commonly adopted by the pros the powers will decide that it is diminishing the value of an essential skill of the game - reading the green. And they will ban it. Bit like belly putting really.

I think you'll find the players on tour have greens mapped out showing slopes and how much it slopes by already, Aimpoint have taken it further so what ever speed of green you are on you will have the break value you need. Green reading is a skill but you can be the best reader in the world but YOU still have to swing the putter and hit the ball square to your target line, get the pace (no matter what method you use). So really I don't think it will be banned IMO.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

As a theory, Aimpoint is physically and mathematically as perfect as you can get. The problem is, it isn't possible for any person to compute the calculations required.

As far as I can tell, what Aimpoint does is give people an appreciation of how much a ball will move on any given slope. Most people will under-borrow and miss on the low side as they don't appreciate how much break to allow for. Once you allow for enough break to get the ball on the high side of the hole, there is more chance of it going in and therefore more putts will be made.

I would hazard a guess that after regular use, most Aimpointers would have learned subconsciously how much break to allow and could put just as well without using the Aimpoint system.

 

[Foxholer]

Is there a recommended distance from the hole that aimpoint should be used from? Im thinking most good putters (pros) ram everything in from the 6 feet ish range. Would aimpoint recommend to play the break? Or would it only become effective from further away?

If aimpoint recommends to play the break on every putt then I cant see how it will be more effective than taking the break out for a 6 footer for example?

The charts etc are based on hitting at a speed that will send the ball 6-12" past the hole. So a 'rammer' putt is not an Aimpoint one. It's up to the player whether to use Aimpoint on such (or any) putts.

 

[Simbo]

I need to read more into this aim point, don't why it's taking such a serious bashing TBH I can't see what's any different to trying/using this system as it is to taking lessons. IMO all good putters will aim for 6-12" past the hole, all good putters will ram some and die others, depending on the scenario.

How does it deal with green speed?? A fast links green with exactly the same amount on slope/break on it to a slow heathland course will have a different breaking point. Surely if this aim point chart is a one size fits all type thing telling you that for X slope you need Y break then your going to miss one or the other of these putts all the time?.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

How crucial is knowing the stimp reading of the greens ? Do you test it on the putting green ?

I need to read more into this aim point, don't why it's taking such a serious bashing TBH I can't see what's any different to trying/using this system as it is to taking lessons. IMO all good putters will aim for 6-12" past the hole, all good putters will ram some and die others, depending on the scenario.

How does it deal with green speed?? A fast links green with exactly the same amount on slope/break on it to a slow heathland course will have a different breaking point. Surely if this aim point chart is a one size fits all type thing telling you that for X slope you need Y break then your going to miss one or the other of these putts all the time?.

To answer both questions in one hit, the idea is you work out the stimp on the practice putting green before hand, usually from around 10 feet. There is a drill as part of the initial course which explains this but in essence, find a gentle slope (average 2) and work out the break from the chart. Decide which stimp chart the greens are (8-11) and make the putt. If it isn't accurate go to a slower/quicker chart as necessary and play for that amount of break. If you are out on the course and the practice green bears no semblance to the real ones it isn't too hard to make an adjustment to the next stimp chart.

A links and heathland course will be vastly different hence the differing speeds on offer. To be honest the fasted I've ever played was the Grove at 11. My own course is usually an 8 which is classed as medium. Camberley on the day we played was a 9. West Hill last year was the same and so I'd be surprised if many links got too far over 10. The point is there is a stimp speed for each scenario

 

[gdunc79]

To answer both questions in one hit, the idea is you work out the stimp on the practice putting green before hand, usually from around 10 feet. There is a drill as part of the initial course which explains this but in essence, find a gentle slope (average 2) and work out the break from the chart. Decide which stimp chart the greens are (8-11) and make the putt. If it isn't accurate go to a slower/quicker chart as necessary and play for that amount of break. If you are out on the course and the practice green bears no semblance to the real ones it isn't too hard to make an adjustment to the next stimp chart.

A links and heathland course will be vastly different hence the differing speeds on offer. To be honest the fasted I've ever played was the Grove at 11. My own course is usually an 8 which is classed as medium. Camberley on the day we played was a 9. West Hill last year was the same and so I'd be surprised if many links got too far over 10. The point is there is a stimp speed for each scenario

Mind boggling stuff all for a 10 foot putt!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

How crucial is knowing the stimp reading of the greens ? Do you test it on the putting green ?

I need to read more into this aim point, don't why it's taking such a serious bashing TBH I can't see what's any different to trying/using this system as it is to taking lessons. IMO all good putters will aim for 6-12" past the hole, all good putters will ram some and die others, depending on the scenario.

How does it deal with green speed?? A fast links green with exactly the same amount on slope/break on it to a slow heathland course will have a different breaking point. Surely if this aim point chart is a one size fits all type thing telling you that for X slope you need Y break then your going to miss one or the other of these putts all the time?.

Mind boggling stuff all for a 10 foot putt!

Nope. A 10-15 second read, pick the target and hole it. The question was posed about speed. Process the same throughout

 

[Deleted member 15344]

How many courses do you know though that have the putting green the same speed as the course greens ? I haven't witnessed many

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Agreed but at least your initial read gives you a starting point for the first hole. If you make a decent putt (yes I know you still have to put a good strike on it) and it is over or under significantly you can adjust on hole two. Never have I gone past the third hole without making a decision on what speed chart I'll be using.

 

[Imurg]

This does rely on greens being the same speed thoughout the course doesn't it....?
I'd wager that your average course doesn't have 2 consecutive greens running at the same speed..

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Possibly but the argument I'd put back is that applies to non Aimpoint putters too. How can you get to a new club for arguments sake and judge the greens if they are variable. All I would say is that at least the Aimpoint is giving you a starting point. Make your read, make your putt. If the green is variable then there isn't much you can do whatever way you read it

 

[Imurg]

Good point.....

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Good point.....

Law of averages. Had to get lucky eventually

 

[DaveM]

Very interesting this thread. As I have said it's not for me. But I can see why people would use it, it seems to give Hommer confidence and that's all that matters at the end of the day
Really it's just another method for putting. Like any method it is only as good As the person on the end of the putter. If you don't have the basics of the setup and a sound putting stroke. It will make no difference what method you use.
I would like to know more about it, (even though I have no interest in using it).just to understand where the users are coming from.

 

[3565]

This does rely on greens being the same speed thoughout the course doesn't it....?
I'd wager that your average course doesn't have 2 consecutive greens running at the same speed..

Homers point to you is spot on, I've learnt so much thru Aimpoint that you can, after using it over a period of time, pretty much know how fast the greens are by just hitting a general putt across the green without doing the speed putt drill using the chart. Someone said earlier that thru time and knowledge in doing Aimpoint, you can judge the break virtually straight away. But it's really helpful when you play greens that are so much quicker then your own course.

As for differing speeds on the course your playing, tbh, if they are vastly different then the club ought to sack the GK, if it's half a foot out either side from green to green, it's not going to make a great deal of difference.

 

[3565]

Very interesting this thread. As I have said it's not for me. But I can see why people would use it, it seems to give Hommer confidence and that's all that matters at the end of the day
Really it's just another method for putting. Like any method it is only as good As the person on the end of the putter. If you don't have the basics of the setup and a sound putting stroke. It will make no difference what method you use.
I would like to know more about it, (even though I have no interest in using it).just to understand where the users are coming from.

Absolutely spot on. You can use surveyors lazers and lights and most sophisticated equipment, but it's YOU that swings the club.

 

[chrisd]

Absolutely spot on. You can use surveyors lazers and lights and most sophisticated equipment, but it's YOU that swings the club.

Come on now 3565 you surely don't expect US to start taking the blame for poor shots - what a quaint idea! :smirk: