Adjustment of club during round

[bigG111]

My mate got disqualified in a stableford competition for adjusting his club on the 17th tee before a member pointed out to him that it was illegal. As he was unaware of this rule he immediately replaced the adjustment back to what it was before the tee off stroke was played and was witnessed by the other players. What rule governs this and does he have a case to appeal that decision. ??

 

[Blue in Munich]

Don't believe so. Rule 4.2a

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!rule-04

By adjusting it he breached the rule. The way this reads he should have declared it out of play, then there would have been no problem.

 

[Slab]

Rule 4-2 I think it is

Although the penalty is listed as 2 strokes on the hole, unless another rule has been breached that caused the DQ ? (i.e didn't add the 2 stokes and signed for incorrect score)

I think (unless I'm way wrong) returning it to its original state cant cancel the breach itself

 

[Colin L]

In just over a month's time, if you change the settings of an adjustable club you will be allowed to restore them to their previous position before you make your next stroke without penalty.

See the Exception to Rule 4.1a(3)

 

[jim8flog]

As said the DQ is correct

4.2
*Any club or clubs carried in breach of Rule 4-1 or 4-2 must be declared out of play by the player to his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play immediately upon discovery that a breach has occurred. If the player fails to do so, he is disqualified.
Penalty for Making Stroke with Club in Breach of Rule 4-1 or 4-2:
Disqualification

 

[bigG111]

What would happen if one of the Driver weights came loose during a round or even came flying off after a shot - the act of taking a shot would effectively move the weight and would therefore classify as an adjustment (if sticking by the rule) what would the ruling here be ?

 

[bigG111]

Also lets say a foursome are playing in a comp and a player seeks guidance on a rule but noone in the group knows - clearly there is no time to start digging through the complex rules in this case due to delays however after the round in the clubhouse it transpires that a breach had occured even though the group agreed that they thought that was the way to execute the rule at the time. I think its a bit unfair on the player as lets face it no club player knows all the rules inside out. This is where the game gets ugly - we dont all have the privilege of an R&A referee by our side and players playing in good faith should not be penalized IMHO. "Rules are for fools and for the guidance of wise men" n all that

 

[duncan mackie]

What would happen if one of the Driver weights came loose during a round or even came flying off after a shot - the act of taking a shot would effectively move the weight and would therefore classify as an adjustment (if sticking by the rule) what would the ruling here be ?

Rule 4.3 permits a club damaged during the course of play to be repaired. A weight coming lose would fall into this category and may be required tightened, taking care that it is back in the same place as far as possible.

 

[duncan mackie]

Also lets say a foursome are playing in a comp and a player seeks guidance on a rule but noone in the group knows - clearly there is no time to start digging through the complex rules in this case due to delays however after the round in the clubhouse it transpires that a breach had occured even though the group agreed that they thought that was the way to execute the rule at the time. I think its a bit unfair on the player as lets face it no club player knows all the rules inside out. This is where the game gets ugly - we dont all have the privilege of an R&A referee by our side and players playing in good faith should not be penalized IMHO. "Rules are for fools and for the guidance of wise men" n all that

If it's a match then what's agreed applies.

If unsure how to proceed then you follow rule 3-3 - which you do need to know.
If you take an action that's against the rules it isn't really relevant that you do, or don't, know the rule - what's done is done and any penalty gets applied.

 

[rulefan]

I think its a bit unfair on the player as lets face it no club player knows all the rules inside out. This is where the game gets ugly - we dont all have the privilege of an R&A referee by our side and players playing in good faith should not be penalized IMHO. "Rules are for fools and for the guidance of wise men" n all that

6-1. Rules
The player and his caddie are responsible for knowing the Rules.

 

[jim8flog]

[

. "Rules are for fools " n all that

I would go with "only fools don't know the rules" because it is them that's get 'punished'.

I must admit it does take time to get to know them, that is why (as Duncan says) knowing 3-3 is so important (20.1 c (3) from 2019)

 

[bigG111]

6-1. Rules
The player and his caddie are responsible for knowing the Rules.

Of all golfers out there, what is the proportion of them who know every rule inside out - I would bet its much lower than 1%. Even those who think they are rule savvy will come across a situation which has ambiguity. IMHO there is not enough common sense applied on the Golf course.

 

[duncan mackie]

Of all golfers out there, what is the proportion of them who know every rule inside out - I would bet its much lower than 1%. Even those who think they are rule savvy will come across a situation which has ambiguity. IMHO there is not enough common sense applied on the Golf course.

I would agree it's significantly less than 1% that would meet your criteria.

However, 99% are able to play a competitive round of golf without needing that knowledge, and on the odd occassional that they, and their playing partners, find themselves in need of more knowledge they can generally apply 3-3 and leave it to the committee, or just leave it to the committee. At the end of the day nobody dies.

Alternatively they could spend a few hours (that's all it takes) to acquaint themselves to the basic rules and be way ahead of the curve - in my experience they don't, which is a shame. However, it remains true that a player with a solid comprehension of the rules isn't always appreciated in many games...

 

[Crow]

[


I would go with "only fools don't know the rules" because it is them that's get 'punished'.

I must admit it does take time to get to know them, that is why (as Duncan says) knowing 3-3 is so important (20.1 c (3) from 2019)

Your last line suggests that some of the rule numbers from the current rules will be different from 2019?

I haven't started to digest the new rules yet (primarily as I think that the changes are one of the biggest mistakes the R&A have made in a long time but that's another story) but if that's so then the changes are even more farcical than I'd at first thought.

I'd like to add a motto - A bunch have fools have messed with the rules.

 

[Colin L]

Just forget the current rule numbers. The new rules are structured very differently and consequently the numbering is also very different. I know for one that it's going to be some time before I know my way around well enough to relate a particular situation to a paritcular rule.

Now, here's a wee challenge. Given that you say you haven't started to digest the new rules, what value should we give your assessment of them whether you think them farcical or the best thing since sliced bread? How can you say the current rules have been messed with if you don't know what form they have been changed into?

 

[duncan mackie]

Your last line suggests that some of the rule numbers from the current rules will be different from 2019?

I haven't started to digest the new rules yet (primarily as I think that the changes are one of the biggest mistakes the R&A have made in a long time but that's another story) but if that's so then the changes are even more farcical than I'd at first thought.

I'd like to add a motto - A bunch have fools have messed with the rules.

Best not to look at them as changes - as new rules they make a lot, lot more sense in terms of how they are structured, written (language) and intended (less focus on precision where it's not particularly needed, ability to avoid penalty by 'undoing what can be reasonably undone' etc

Personally I expect about 50% of regular competitive club golfers to be able to apply the new dropping procedure by the end of year 1. Currently I estimate less than 1% have a sound working knowledge of rule 20!

 

[clubchamp98]

Situation we had recently.
Guys driver head comes loose but he hasn’t put his wrench in his bag.
He bought it secondhand with no wrench.
His PPs then said you can’t borrow a wrench from us as it’s our equipment and you are not allowed to share.

I thought this was wrong but am now a bit unsure.
Anyone.??

 

[duncan mackie]

Situation we had recently.
Guys driver head comes loose but he hasn’t put his wrench in his bag.
He bought it secondhand with no wrench.
His PPs then said you can’t borrow a wrench from us as it’s our equipment and you are not allowed to share.

I thought this was wrong but am now a bit unsure.
Anyone.

So someone can't give you a tee peg to use?

 

[Imurg]

Or a ball?

 

[duncan mackie]

Or a ball?

And what's the penalty for sheltering briefly under their umbrella?