Failure to hole out, stroke play, penalty

[doublebogey7]

Am I missing something here?

Anytime i pick up in a medal I am DQ rather than just entering a NR for the hole....

That's how I am reading this.

Yes or no answer please.

Yes

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Yes.

But there are 2 metrics involved, and you are only DQ-ed from one of them - the Medal comp.
Handicap is a 'Stableford metric/measurement' runnng alongside any qualifying comp (be it Medal or Stbleford), so the NR simply means zero points scored for that hole.

For a bit of history, that was the entire reason Dr Frank Stableford invented the system. The first few holes at Wallesey were/are seriously difficult (well, maybe not the magnificent 1st), especially in any sort of 'breeze' and the entire round could be shot to pieces by the 5th. To make the rest of the round meaningful, he devised a system to treat each hole as separate challenge, with the sum of each being the overall value of the round.

This is one of the clearest explanations I have seen in ages.

As helpful as many of our rules guru's are in quoting relevant rules for various scenario's I sometimes think they overlook many of our members as new or newish to the game and the terminology in the rule book is very dry to say the least and probably confuses as many as it helps.

Even after 40 years of playing I dread have to get the rules book out, guaranteed to leave you with a bad head within 5 minutes....

 

[jim8flog]

Last comp I played in would have had a lot of DQ's then, 40 NR's and 6 DQ for the usual HI and CH errors.

Me personally I would not go to all the bother ( all the extra typing in the right box) but he is right. Until his guy took over we have always simply left it is a NR. We had one Captain who wanted it to be recorded as DQ.

One of the simple problems is the PSI screens do have not have a button to self DQ.

 

[rosecott]

Nobody has mentioned the option of playing a medal using the Maximum Score option.

Our committee discussed this at great length when it was introduced a few years ago with par+5 set as necessary for qualifier status. It was finally agreed to be brought into use on that basis and although a number of players had misgivings, it became clear that players having one or more Maximums were unlikely to be in the money - and so it has proved. Strangely, when WHS came in, the par+5 stipulation was not set as necessary for qualifier status but our competition software is still set at par+5 and it has certainly speeded up play in Medals with no need for any DQs.

Worth thinking about.

 

[Foxholer]

Me personally I would not go to all the bother ( all the extra typing in the right box) but he is right. Until his guy took over we have always simply left it is a NR. We had one Captain who wanted it to be recorded as DQ.

One of the simple problems is the PSI screens do have not have a button to self DQ.

Is there an 'NR' button? That should automatically generate a DQ for Medal comps.

 

[backwoodsman]

Nobody has mentioned the option of playing a medal using the Maximum Score option.

Our committee discussed this at great length when it was introduced a few years ago with par+5 set as necessary for qualifier status. It was finally agreed to be brought into use on that basis and although a number of players had misgivings, it became clear that players having one or more Maximums were unlikely to be in the money - and so it has proved. Strangely, when WHS came in, the par+5 stipulation was not set as necessary for qualifier status but our competition software is still set at par+5 and it has certainly speeded up play in Medals with no need for any DQs.

Worth thinking about.

Aye, but, pedantry corner. You can have a Maximum Score competition or a Medal Competition but not both at the same time. A Maximum Score competition is not a Medal competition - it's an alternative.

 

[rosecott]

Aye, but, pedantry corner. You can have a Maximum Score competition or a Medal Competition but not both at the same time. A Maximum Score competition is not a Medal competition - it's an alternative.

Wasn't suggesting that. Why would I?

Rules of Golf identify the two formats as Individual Strokeplay and Individual Maximum Score - no mention of medal. No reason at all why you cannot play as Maximum Score a competition your club calls Monthly Medal.

 

[jim8flog]

Is there an 'NR' button? That should automatically generate a DQ for Medal comps.

Yes there is but no it does not . When there is a DQ is also a requirement to put in a reason for the DQ

 

[Foxholer]

Yes there is but no it does not . When there is a DQ is also a requirement to put in a reason for the DQ

So what is entered on your system for that hole? 0 (zero)? Or simply missed? Not very user-friendly imo.

 

[Colin L]

This is one of the clearest explanations I have seen in ages.

As helpful as many of our rules guru's are in quoting relevant rules for various scenario's I sometimes think they overlook many of our members as new or newish to the game and the terminology in the rule book is very dry to say the least and probably confuses as many as it helps.

Even after 40 years of playing I dread have to get the rules book out, guaranteed to leave you with a bad head within 5 minutes....

Each to his own, I suppose. I haven't the faintest idea what is meant by Handicap is a 'Stableford metric/measurement' runnng alongside any qualifying comp although I know fine what stableford is and how it is used in handicapping.

 

[fullongolf]

My initial post relates to the competition of the day. In this case it was a stroke competition (and also the monthly medal). It just so happens that the monthly medal at our club is a stroke competition. It could be stableford, par or stroke.

My understanding is that stroke is considered the truest test of a players ability (e.g. stroke play is the game played on the various pro tours).

It is also my belief that stroke is only played sparingly at clubs because a) stroke is considered the truest test of a players ability and b) because you have to count every shot, it slows the game down so much ...

Some of the comments here relate to how the handicapping is done after the game. Others mention reverting to some other method of scoring or picking up if your score on the hole has blown out. That's not the issue in this case.

It is simply that in stroke play, all shots must be counted and you have to putt out.

If you pick up your ball before holing out, you are disqualified (see extract from the Rules of Golf below). There is no arbitrary rule where you write down say an eight (which is more than two over your handicap for the hole) if you haven't finished the hole.

If you did that and your marker signed the card, you would/should be both disqualified for entering an incorrect score.

Playing on after you pick up is fine, just be aware that you are disqualified from that competition. If your card is submitted after the game and used for handicapping purposes is a separate issue.

3.3 Stroke Play

c Failure to Hole Out

A player must hole out at each hole in a round. If the player fails to hole out at any hole:

• The player must correct that mistake before making a stroke to begin another hole or, for the final hole of the round, before returning the scorecard.
• If the mistake is not corrected in that time, the player is disqualified.

 

[rulefan]

My initial post relates to the competition of the day. In this case it was a stroke competition (and also the monthly medal). It just so happens that the monthly medal at our club is a stroke competition. It could be stableford, par or stroke.

My understanding is that stroke is considered the truest test of a players ability (e.g. stroke play is the game played on the various pro tours).

It is also my belief that stroke is only played sparingly at clubs because a) stroke is considered the truest test of a players ability and b) because you have to count every shot, it slows the game down so much ...

Some of the comments here relate to how the handicapping is done after the game. Others mention reverting to some other method of scoring or picking up if your score on the hole has blown out. That's not the issue in this case.

It is simply that in stroke play, all shots must be counted and you have to putt out.

If you pick up your ball before holing out, you are disqualified (see extract from the Rules of Golf below). There is no arbitrary rule where you write down say an eight (which is more than two over your handicap for the hole) if you haven't finished the hole.

If you did that and your marker signed the card, you would/should be both disqualified for entering an incorrect score.

Playing on after you pick up is fine, just be aware that you are disqualified from that competition. If your card is submitted after the game and used for handicapping purposes is a separate issue.

3.3 Stroke Play

c Failure to Hole Out

A player must hole out at each hole in a round. If the player fails to hole out at any hole:

• The player must correct that mistake before making a stroke to begin another hole or, for the final hole of the round, before returning the scorecard.
• If the mistake is not corrected in that time, the player is disqualified.

That (ie DQ) is correct re the Competition. However, the score is acceptable (and must be recorded) for Handicapping purposes.

NB. Different ISVs require the indication that a hole has been started but not completed is (may be) indicated to the software in slightly different ways

 

[jim8flog]

So what is entered on your system for that hole? 0 (zero)? Or simply missed? Not very user-friendly imo.

NR or 0

 

[woofers]

Is there an 'NR' button? That should automatically generate a DQ for Medal comps.

Yes there is but no it does not . When there is a DQ is also a requirement to put in a reason for the DQ

The only system I‘m familiar with is IG. The player records or enters NR, which I believe is their responsibility. IG then requires the competition administrator to disqualify the player from the competition, and has a facility for the reason for the disqualification to be shown, i.e Breach of rule x.x.
This all seems logical and reasonable to me, the players can see the reasons for any disqualifications, and possibly learn from them?
I can see the logic for an automatic DQ for NR, but perhaps there is a reason the software providers don‘t do this, e.g only an administrator can DQ a player? Can a player formally DQ themself ?

 

[doublebogey7]

The only system I‘m familiar with is IG. The player records or enters NR, which I believe is their responsibility. IG then requires the competition administrator to disqualify the player from the competition, and has a facility for the reason for the disqualification to be shown, i.e Breach of rule x.x.
This all seems logical and reasonable to me, the players can see the reasons for any disqualifications, and possibly learn from them?
I can see the logic for an automatic DQ for NR, but perhaps there is a reason the software providers don‘t do this, e.g only an administrator can DQ a player? Can a player formally DQ themself ?

Sorry but that's not the case at least its not at my club. Player records NR and that is what the result sheet shows.
I think we're playing with semantics a lot on this thread, NR is simply a form of DQ.

 

[woofers]

Sorry but that's not the case at least its not at my club. Player records NR and that is what the result sheet shows.
I think we're playing with semantics a lot on this thread, NR is simply a form of DQ.

Sorry, I should have made it clearer, yes, the result sheet will show NR unless the administrator intervenes.
(IG has a Disqualified Players report which could be useful for some situations, so recording a DQ and the reason may have benefits). My questions still stand, can a player formally DQ themselves?

 

[Colin L]

........ can a player formally DQ themselves?

Not as I understand it. Essentially a disqualification is caused by the player and enacted by the Committee. In the context of this thread, the player fails to record a score for a hole and and the result is a disqualification. A player can withdraw from a competition thus causing his or her DQ.

 

[Foxholer]

Sorry but that's not the case at least its not at my club. Player records NR and that is what the result sheet shows.
I think we're playing with semantics a lot on this thread, NR is simply a form of DQ.

Presumably only in a Medal comp. Stableford should simply record 0 points.

 

[woofers]

Presumably only in a Medal comp. Stableford should simply record 0 points.

Correct

 

[woofers]

Not as I understand it. Essentially a disqualification is caused by the player and enacted by the Committee. In the context of this thread, the player fails to record a score for a hole and and the result is a disqualification. A player can withdraw from a competition thus causing his or her DQ.

Thank you