Jimbooo
Challenge Tour Pro
no worries sir :thup:
A day at the range with JustOne.
- Thread starter Slime
- Start date
no worries sir :thup:
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
Hi Slime, sorry for my late post, this is the 3rd time I've written this (lost it twice because of the forum software) so I'm going to just write in bits and keep editing my posts for as long as possible (this one included).
Overall your swing is pretty good but you've fallen into the same 'traps' that lots of people do, especially those who try S&T, so we're going to take you slightly away from the pattern (to a more normal swing) so that instead of swinging so much in-to-out and hitting 10yrd draws you'll swing a little more down the target line and hit 'soft' draws of just a couple of yards.
To describe your swing would be as follows.... you take the club too much to the inside initially, that means that your arms are too low... so you have to 'lift' them to get the club to your shoulder plane. Once this happens the downswing is usually instigated with a slight OTT move.... and because you are trying to swing OUT you have to steepen the plane of the shaft too much just so that you can keep 'hitting from the inside'.
Now that you've steepened the club there's nowhere to go.... so your left shoulder stops turning, your right shoulder stays too high and you literally 'dump' the club into the ball. Very common. Because you have some S&T fundamentals in your swing it does actually give you a reasonable strike because you have forward shaft lean and you're hitting DOWN on the ball... but because the club is too steep and your turn has stopped you hit the ball too low and with a loss of power. Generally people who try S&T would settle for this as their strike is probably already better than they use to have - but it's not correct.
[AAAARGHHHHHHH!!!!! just lost this post again.... good job I'm doing it in bits!!]
Ok....
Here's a guy who plays off a 3 h/cap, his position coming into impact is very similar to yours.....
As you can see, pretty much all of him is in front of the ball, his head is right over the ball (yours was a little bit more forward of that) his hands are very much under his nose. The club IS coming in with some shaft lean and he IS hitting down but he's just about to stall into impact and flip the club. He has very little lag and for the energy he's putting into the swing it won't be more than a punchy/stabby impact with possibly quite a low ball flight, and (I expect) some early extension.
Now let's compare those positions to someone like Rory....
Overall your swing is pretty good but you've fallen into the same 'traps' that lots of people do, especially those who try S&T, so we're going to take you slightly away from the pattern (to a more normal swing) so that instead of swinging so much in-to-out and hitting 10yrd draws you'll swing a little more down the target line and hit 'soft' draws of just a couple of yards.
To describe your swing would be as follows.... you take the club too much to the inside initially, that means that your arms are too low... so you have to 'lift' them to get the club to your shoulder plane. Once this happens the downswing is usually instigated with a slight OTT move.... and because you are trying to swing OUT you have to steepen the plane of the shaft too much just so that you can keep 'hitting from the inside'.
Now that you've steepened the club there's nowhere to go.... so your left shoulder stops turning, your right shoulder stays too high and you literally 'dump' the club into the ball. Very common. Because you have some S&T fundamentals in your swing it does actually give you a reasonable strike because you have forward shaft lean and you're hitting DOWN on the ball... but because the club is too steep and your turn has stopped you hit the ball too low and with a loss of power. Generally people who try S&T would settle for this as their strike is probably already better than they use to have - but it's not correct.
[AAAARGHHHHHHH!!!!! just lost this post again.... good job I'm doing it in bits!!]
Ok....
Here's a guy who plays off a 3 h/cap, his position coming into impact is very similar to yours.....
As you can see, pretty much all of him is in front of the ball, his head is right over the ball (yours was a little bit more forward of that) his hands are very much under his nose. The club IS coming in with some shaft lean and he IS hitting down but he's just about to stall into impact and flip the club. He has very little lag and for the energy he's putting into the swing it won't be more than a punchy/stabby impact with possibly quite a low ball flight, and (I expect) some early extension.
Now let's compare those positions to someone like Rory....
Last edited:
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
Now let's compare those positions to someone like Rory....
As I was saying before that post ran out of time....
If you look at Rory in that pic.... his head is very much behind the ball (the one there that he's actually trying to hit) and his hands are VERY MUCH more targetwards than his nose.... he's swung his 1.7m swing into 1.5m of space :thup: In doing so he has SHALLOWED his angle of descent so that he arrives into impact without stalling (more speed) and with his hands forwards giving him shaft lean (more lag) .... less steep, more lag and more speed = Valhalla!!!
The yellow line on the right represents just how more targetwards his hands are, but it also shows just how much TILT he has in his upper body AWAY from the target.
Learning to do this ISN'T easy if you don't understand it... or if you're trying to do it at full speed... you have to "GET" the sequence so that you can do it... here's one of my friends doing a slow-mo 'exaggeration drill' where he's trying it.... on the left is his practice swing where he's trying to have his hands forwards, head behind the ball (big spine tilt there) and the right shoulder lower (swinging the box down to P6)...
on the right is his ACTUAL swing afterwards - feel and real are SOOOOOOO different!!
He KNOWS what to do..... and can't do it!! So don't kick yourself over it... it's not easy.... :thup:
See just how the left and right positions change.. on the left his hands are MILES ahead and there's a ton of (too much) shaft lean/lag.. (it's just a slow-mo drill).... and his right shoulder is uber low...... then on the right his hands are right under his nose, he has no lag and his shoulders are level :thup:
and lastly (on this reply) before I move onto other things here's a 'ball on a string video' that is pretty much in line with what I was saying about 'stalling into impact'.... complicated and not all of it necessarily refers to you or your swing.... but worth watching anyway http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgv4hdVJ6_Y
Last edited:
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
This is THE sequence from a good stance at address, head behind the ball.
Club swings to P2 (down the toe line) whilst the right hip begins to turn back and the shoulders turn to 45 degrees on an ANGLED PLANE down towards the ball (not a flat shoulder turn!!)
From P2 the club hinges UP to P3 where the left arm is parallel to the ground. Your right hip and shoulders continue their turn as you hinge the club up and over your shoulder into P3.5 Your left arm gets closer to your 'heel line' because you are finishing your shoulder turn, not because you are swinging your arms
From the top your right hip stays back and your train has now hooked up with it's carriages!! and the whole 'box' begins to turn down into P6 into the space that your retracted right hip has created. Your weight shifts into your left side whilst your head stays back.
From P6 your hands pass your nose, forwards into impact, your right arm almost feels as if it's reaching for your left pocket, the left hip clears, the grip is forwards and the right shoulder is turning down and and a little out towards the ball, your head is behind the ball.
just keep turning .... throw the club down the driving range
Here's Ernie Els talking about 'the box' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dB92puVNHo
and (as much as I loathe him) here's Johnny Miller talking about the same thing... http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=rp4EN5bc3yg (ignore Fred Couples swing.... why use a UNIQUE SWING as an example!!! DOH!!! and Freddy over-swings about a mile further than mere mortals should swing)
2 vids from yesteryear that have soooo been missed (not explained properly) over the years.
and here's my 'cigarette video' that you MISSED... you git!! :clap:
[video=youtube;8crIFt786jg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8crIFt786jg[/video]
Club swings to P2 (down the toe line) whilst the right hip begins to turn back and the shoulders turn to 45 degrees on an ANGLED PLANE down towards the ball (not a flat shoulder turn!!)
From P2 the club hinges UP to P3 where the left arm is parallel to the ground. Your right hip and shoulders continue their turn as you hinge the club up and over your shoulder into P3.5 Your left arm gets closer to your 'heel line' because you are finishing your shoulder turn, not because you are swinging your arms
From the top your right hip stays back and your train has now hooked up with it's carriages!! and the whole 'box' begins to turn down into P6 into the space that your retracted right hip has created. Your weight shifts into your left side whilst your head stays back.
From P6 your hands pass your nose, forwards into impact, your right arm almost feels as if it's reaching for your left pocket, the left hip clears, the grip is forwards and the right shoulder is turning down and and a little out towards the ball, your head is behind the ball.
just keep turning .... throw the club down the driving range
Here's Ernie Els talking about 'the box' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dB92puVNHo
and (as much as I loathe him) here's Johnny Miller talking about the same thing... http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=rp4EN5bc3yg (ignore Fred Couples swing.... why use a UNIQUE SWING as an example!!!
DOH!!! and Freddy over-swings about a mile further than mere mortals should swing)2 vids from yesteryear that have soooo been missed (not explained properly) over the years.
and here's my 'cigarette video' that you MISSED... you git!! :clap:
[video=youtube;8crIFt786jg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8crIFt786jg[/video]
Last edited:
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
And lastly (I think) these are the things you need to be conscious of:
- At set up, you're not too bad, head behind the ball a little bit please and certainly be aware of it staying behind the ball at impact.
- Watch your shoulders aren't open.
- Don't turn your shoulders too flat.
- Don't swing your P2 too much to the inside.
- MUCH wider stance with your driver, head nicely back (don't crook your neck)... make sure you are aimed correctly and aren't set up SQUARE by accident
- Your left hand grip is just a hair on the weak side, make sure the club is in your fingers not across them.
- Shorter backswing, left arm straighter, a little more 'wide' than behind you. Soft draw with the irons, 10yrd fade with the driver :thup:
...and all the rest of the stuff I posted above!
I think that's enough to be getting on with for the next few days :rofl: See you in April :thup:
- At set up, you're not too bad, head behind the ball a little bit please and certainly be aware of it staying behind the ball at impact.
- Watch your shoulders aren't open.
- Don't turn your shoulders too flat.
- Don't swing your P2 too much to the inside.
- MUCH wider stance with your driver, head nicely back (don't crook your neck)... make sure you are aimed correctly and aren't set up SQUARE by accident
- Your left hand grip is just a hair on the weak side, make sure the club is in your fingers not across them.
- Shorter backswing, left arm straighter, a little more 'wide' than behind you. Soft draw with the irons, 10yrd fade with the driver :thup:
...and all the rest of the stuff I posted above!
I think that's enough to be getting on with for the next few days :rofl: See you in April :thup:
Last edited:
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
I don't read too much into it at that level... 21 h/cap or 18 when you're playing with your mates isn't much to worry about.
If you have an official h/cap then you'd be cheating yourself a little bit.... but again, maybe not if you're playing with mates. If you're happy not winning all the time then that's fine.
Being able to measure how you play without your 'head dropping' all the time is a totally different thing altogether though, and that's what I was telling Slime.... his expectations were actually higher/better than what a PGA tour pro actually achieves
eg: missing the 150yrd marker by more than 3yds was a mini disaster in his opinion. The best pro on tour in 2012 was 4yds from the pin...... from 100yds out not 150!!! ...it's more like 10/11yds from 150 out, and that's for a TOUR pro :thup:
Last edited:
virtuocity
Tour Winner
Great stuff. It seems that everyone you meet has an OTT move. Is this the most common fault you come across?
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
Yes, but they're not OTT because they take evasive action.. early extension or steepen the shaft.
Too low or inside (and normally an over-swing) going back leads to a steepening of the shaft on the way down... if they didn't they'd be swinging left. Slime wasn't OTT, he just had an evasive OTT move.
Too low or inside (and normally an over-swing) going back leads to a steepening of the shaft on the way down... if they didn't they'd be swinging left. Slime wasn't OTT, he just had an evasive OTT move.
I'm sure (someone will correct me with the exact figure from stats hopefully) that I saw that its over 93% of golfers slice as their main fault:mmm:
Slime
Tour Winner
Thanks for the re-cap. Man, I'm going to find this useful ............ and it all makes perfect sense to me.
There is much for me to work on over the next few weeks, but rest assured, work on it I will.
Not only was it a very informative day, it was also a most enjoyable one too, for which I heartily thank you.
OMG!
I've just worked it out! JustOne's hidden agenda.
He teaches people to swing both ways ....................... and he wants to go out with me in April! :thup:.
Slime.
chrisd
Major Champion
Foxholer
Blackballed
Thanks for the re-cap. Man, I'm going to find this useful ............ and it all makes perfect sense to me.
There is much for me to work on over the next few weeks, but rest assured, work on it I will.
Not only was it a very informative day, it was also a most enjoyable one too, for which I heartily thank you.
OMG!
I've just worked it out! JustOne's hidden agenda.
He teaches people to swing both ways ....................... and he wants to go out with me in April! :thup:.
Slime.
Had the Pink Outfits not been enough of a clue?
chrisd
Major Champion
Hi James, I thought I'd try uploading a pic from a lesson a while back of my ball strike - any tips?
D4RK1
Assistant Pro
Because I'm a man and only girls have more than one shot a hole
But seriously, there's a piece of me that can't accept that if I reach a hole in regulation that I may have four putts for a point, that just feels wrong.
Slime.
Fair dinkum!
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
Who is it really???
Interesting that the left knee hasn't turned at all. The rest looks OK.
chrisd
Major Champion
Haha - I was working on some things with the pro and do now hip turn a little earlier, I will post up if I can see more recent video clip
Oddsocks
Ryder Cup Winner
chrisd
Major Champion
Down the line view about the time of West Hill
chrisd
Major Champion
A wig
If you wern't so big .......................
richart
Major Champion
Take up bowls.
