95% - why?

clubchamp98

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We all started the game with little or no knowledge of how to play it most of us would have run up a 10+ many times.

The only difference now is you can have a handicap before you have learned how to break 100.
Yes I agree but you would not get near a private club if you needed that many shots.
These caps are not just for beginners though plenty of established players will be pot hunting with this new system.

Most inc me learnt at munis before setting foot on a private course , mainly to do with cost at the time.
Now if you can afford it your in no matter your standard.
 
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Swango1980

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So if the Aussies have a different way of doing it.
Why is it called a WHS if there are differences between countries?
That just seems odd.
They should all be the same or it’s not a WHS.
I guess it is WHS because Handicap Index is ultimately transferable between countries. It is just that each country does different things with it to get you something to play with on the course.

US is much more similar, at least it has all same terminology. But it does apply CR-Par within the Course Handicap. The Australians just went crazy, and not only applied it differently, but used completely different terminology
 

Voyager EMH

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It is different because one of them is 100% and one of them is 95%. How have you missed that, that's the whole point of the topic??
I have missed your point. I don't understand what you mean by "it" is different, unless you mean singles matchplay (100%) compared with individual strokeplay (95%). But you referred to there being a different "handicap" when playing social golf compared with club competitions, which I believe is untrue.
 

rulefan

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So if the Aussies have a different way of doing it.
Why is it called a WHS if there are differences between countries?
That just seems odd.
They should all be the same or it’s not a WHS.
The original intention of the 7 authorities involved was to get as near a common as possible system given the significant differences in the then current systems and the traditional and historical approaches to the game in the various countries. In the event national interests prevented a comprehensive integration but given the background I reckon they have made a pretty good job of getting a transportable handicap. The daily local nitty gritty is not that important for the present and I'm sure we will see tweaks around the world as more experience is gained.

It is arguable that the Australian system was least affected because it was the already most sophisticated and most recently updated and its operation was better regulated than the US. The most significant factor is of course the 'averaging' system which is widely recognised as being fairer. Being a better reflection of a player's general standard than the European and CONGU systems' 'ratchet' for determining potential.
 
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Orikoru

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I have missed your point. I don't understand what you mean by "it" is different, unless you mean singles matchplay (100%) compared with individual strokeplay (95%). But you referred to there being a different "handicap" when playing social golf compared with club competitions, which I believe is untrue.
If I play with my mates off the whites I'm off 16. If I play in a competition off the whites I'm off 15. So it's bloody different isn't it! 15 is different to 16. It's one less. Or are you trying to tell me we should be doing 95% even on our non-comp rounds?? If that's the case, then the I agree with the original point even more! It should just be factored into the original calculation to avoid confusion.
 

sweaty sock

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The 95 percent is to balance the results due to the nature of variability brought about by the size of the field.

Playing with your mates (depending how many you have!) Doesnt need this balancing so you dont need to apply the 95%.
 

Swango1980

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If I play with my mates off the whites I'm off 16. If I play in a competition off the whites I'm off 15. So it's bloody different isn't it! 15 is different to 16. It's one less. Or are you trying to tell me we should be doing 95% even on our non-comp rounds?? If that's the case, then the I agree with the original point even more! It should just be factored into the original calculation to avoid confusion.
Why do you play off 16 with your mates. Assuming you are playing Stableford or medal, why are you not applying the mandatory 95% to course handicap? Ultimately, no handicap system can be responsible what people do socially if they do not follow the system
 

Voyager EMH

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If I play with my mates off the whites I'm off 16. If I play in a competition off the whites I'm off 15. So it's bloody different isn't it! 15 is different to 16. It's one less. Or are you trying to tell me we should be doing 95% even on our non-comp rounds?? If that's the case, then the I agree with the original point even more! It should just be factored into the original calculation to avoid confusion.
If you and your mates all agree to play individual strokeplay with 100% of Course Handicap, then you are free to do so and it is not my place to interfere. But the rules of handicapping (as adopted by England Golf) say that you should play to the correct Playing Handicap for individual strokeplay for fairness and equity, which is 95% of Course Handicap, regardless of field size. So if you are finding it confusing, then I suggest you play to the rules of handicapping at all times. But you are free to ignore me and continue as you are doing. I'm merely suggesting a possible course of action for you and your buds. Many at my club are doing as you do and they even calculate 90% of the difference between Course Handicaps when playing friendly betterball matchplay. I think that they are not making an informed decision, they are merely confused, refusing to adapt and wallowing in ignorance. Just my opinion.
 

Orikoru

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Why do you play off 16 with your mates. Assuming you are playing Stableford or medal, why are you not applying the mandatory 95% to course handicap? Ultimately, no handicap system can be responsible what people do socially if they do not follow the system
That just shows you how stupid it is. I thought the 95% was just for competitions, obviously I misunderstood it. If I'm supposed to play off 95% all the time then seriously, why isn't that just the standard calculation for handicap!? Why are they making me do the work??
"What's my new WHS index?"
"It's 95% of 15.1"
"Sorry I asked for my handicap not a maths problem."
 

wjemather

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The 95% is intended for competition use only, and unions have advised golfers to let the computer/software do the work in this regard. The expectation/advice is that golfers always play using their Course Handicap, as this is what is used for handicapping (net double-bogey adjustments).

Regardless of this, people are, of course, free to do whatever they want with their mates.
 

Swango1980

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That just shows you how stupid it is. I thought the 95% was just for competitions, obviously I misunderstood it. If I'm supposed to play off 95% all the time then seriously, why isn't that just the standard calculation for handicap!? Why are they making me do the work??
"What's my new WHS index?"
"It's 95% of 15.1"
"Sorry I asked for my handicap not a maths problem."
You do not play of 95% at all times.

Singles match play it is 100%. Doubles match play it is 90%. There are other allowances for other formats.

I agree, it is confusing to many, and I would have preferred them to do what the Australians do and just embed the allowance in the course handicap calculation. But, that is not what they have done here, so we just need to get used to it.
 

Orikoru

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You do not play of 95% at all times.

Singles match play it is 100%. Doubles match play it is 90%. There are other allowances for other formats.

I agree, it is confusing to many, and I would have preferred them to do what the Australians do and just embed the allowance in the course handicap calculation. But, that is not what they have done here, so we just need to get used to it.
I don't play much match play. Maybe they should have made strokeplay the easy one, and match play the one where you have to do extra maths. ?
 

jim8flog

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If you and your mates all agree to play individual strokeplay with 100% of Course Handicap, then you are free to do so and it is not my place to interfere. But the rules of handicapping (as adopted by England Golf) say that you should play to the correct Playing Handicap for individual strokeplay for fairness and equity, which is 95% of Course Handicap, regardless of field size. So if you are finding it confusing, then I suggest you play to the rules of handicapping at all times. But you are free to ignore me and continue as you are doing. I'm merely suggesting a possible course of action for you and your buds. Many at my club are doing as you do and they even calculate 90% of the difference between Course Handicaps when playing friendly betterball matchplay. I think that they are not making an informed decision, they are merely confused, refusing to adapt and wallowing in ignorance. Just my opinion.

The Rules of Golf say we should putt out but every swindle I play in has gimmes.
 
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You do not play of 95% at all times.

Singles match play it is 100%. Doubles match play it is 90%. There are other allowances for other formats.

I agree, it is confusing to many, and I would have preferred them to do what the Australians do and just embed the allowance in the course handicap calculation. But, that is not what they have done here, so we just need to get used to it.

Would have been far too simple to what the Aussies have done.

Plenty of bewildered golfers in evidence around the 1st tee trying to work it out. Pro is tearing his remaining hair trying to keep them right.

Never previously not added Stableford scores up on a card so the advice to just put the gross scores down is very strange and its like playing in the dark for some I guess.
 

jim8flog

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At the end of the day if you are playing in any sort of strokeplay comp just record your gross score and let the computer do the rest.

This is particularly important for handicaps as they are based upon 100% and not 95%. Particularly important in a Stableford comp and stopping to play a hole because you think you cannot score on it.
 

Swango1980

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At the end of the day if you are playing in any sort of strokeplay comp just record your gross score and let the computer do the rest.

This is particularly important for handicaps as they are based upon 100% and not 95%. Particularly important in a Stableford comp and stopping to play a hole because you think you cannot score on it.
I just do not think this is feasible. Most golfers want to know how they are scoring in the competition. There are very few who have the attitude of not caring, and just allowing the computer to tell them. Also, if a player and their markers KNOWS how they scored in the competition, then if the computer tells them something different they know there may have been a mistake in the score entry. This happened yesterday. The computer said a chap scored 33 points, but we knew he scored 32 points from what we marked on his card. Turned out he entered a 7 instead of a 6 on one hole. Had he not bothered to know his playing handicap, then this would not have been noticed, removing one safety nett and effectively relying on the poor competition secretary to spot every error in score entry.
 

Swango1980

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Would have been far too simple to what the Aussies have done.

Plenty of bewildered golfers in evidence around the 1st tee trying to work it out. Pro is tearing his remaining hair trying to keep them right.

Never previously not added Stableford scores up on a card so the advice to just put the gross scores down is very strange and its like playing in the dark for some I guess.
It is getting incredibly tiresome turning up on the first tee and filling out the score cards.

"What is your handicap?"
"17"
"Is that course or playing?"
"It is what the computer told me"
"Yes, but we need the course handicap on the card"
"I think 17 is my Playing"
"OK, so your course is 18?"
"I guess so"
"And you, what is your handicap"
"12.2"
"OK, that must be your Index, what is your Course handicap"
"Not sure"
"Did you check the board?"
"No"
"OK, let me get my calculator out...OK course handicap is 14"
"And finally, what about your handicap?"
"I'm playing off 16"
"OK, was that on the computer? I guess that means your course handicap is 17"
"No, it is what I played off last time in the doubles"
"You are not off 16 then, that was 90% of course handicap. So, I presume your Course handicap is 18, so you will be off 17 Playing Handicap?"
"Hmmmm, no idea, I'll go back up to club and check the board"

That is just one example. But, generally, when filling out the card on the 1st tee, it takes bloody ages. Need to get there early just so that our group can have this discussion earlier, and then I can warm up properly
 

Orikoru

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It is getting incredibly tiresome turning up on the first tee and filling out the score cards.

"What is your handicap?"
"17"
"Is that course or playing?"
"It is what the computer told me"
"Yes, but we need the course handicap on the card"
"I think 17 is my Playing"
"OK, so your course is 18?"
"I guess so"
"And you, what is your handicap"
"12.2"
"OK, that must be your Index, what is your Course handicap"
"Not sure"
"Did you check the board?"
"No"
"OK, let me get my calculator out...OK course handicap is 14"
"And finally, what about your handicap?"
"I'm playing off 16"
"OK, was that on the computer? I guess that means your course handicap is 17"
"No, it is what I played off last time in the doubles"
"You are not off 16 then, that was 90% of course handicap. So, I presume your Course handicap is 18, so you will be off 17 Playing Handicap?"
"Hmmmm, no idea, I'll go back up to club and check the board"

That is just one example. But, generally, when filling out the card on the 1st tee, it takes bloody ages. Need to get there early just so that our group can have this discussion earlier, and then I can warm up properly
Yup, this is how I envision it. I've not even played a comp off the new system yet, first one tomorrow. But for me I'll just read it off IG app because it has a handy calculator on there to tell you. But I realise not everyone is comfortable using that.
 
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