95% - why?

Swango1980

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Given that all we need to enter is the gross, why do cards have boxes for HCP, index, points, etc etc? Never understood why all that is of interest to the committee. One column of numbers for each player, let the computer do the rest.
The other information is still useful information. And, going back to a time before technology, the Committee would have used those boxes themselves (either to check what player put in, or to fill them in to determine the comp scores). I guess there is no need to remove them. If we did, we'd have players complaining there is no room to fill in their Stableford points or Match Play score, whether it be in a comp or a friendly knock with mates
 

jim8flog

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Its just an excuse for not wanting to do something.

How many people don't have a phone capable of taking a photo or sending an email? This has been common now for 10/15 years. So its not exactly new fangled tech.

If you don't, ask one of your playing partners to take a photo and email it to you, then forward it on.
We reckon about 5% of our members do not have any sort of computer with access to email.
 

BiMGuy

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We reckon about 5% of our members do not have any sort of computer with access to email.
At my club that would be fewer then 30 members. And will only become less of a problem over time.

For those that don't have access to email, surely they can get another member to submit a photo on their behalf?

Or just insist that the correct gross score is submitted by whatever computerised method necessary and let the computer work things out. DQ people that get it wrong and they will quickly learn to do it right, like we used to do when signing and submitting a physical card.
 

Imurg

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At my club that would be fewer then 30 members. And will only become less of a problem over time.

For those that don't have access to email, surely they can get another member to submit a photo on their behalf?

Or just insist that the correct gross score is submitted by whatever computerised method necessary and let the computer work things out. DQ people that get it wrong and they will quickly learn to do it right, like we used to do when signing and submitting a physical card.
And, yet, people still failed that simple hurdle.....:unsure:
DQ enough people for a data entry error and you won't have many scores coming in at all...
 

jim8flog

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At my club that would be fewer then 30 members. And will only become less of a problem over time.

For those that don't have access to email, surely they can get another member to submit a photo on their behalf?

Or just insist that the correct gross score is submitted by whatever computerised method necessary and let the computer work things out. DQ people that get it wrong and they will quickly learn to do it right, like we used to do when signing and submitting a physical card.
We still submit physical cards for comps and general Play Cards* and have 2 PSI screens for score input, scores can be input via the IG app.
We have gone the route of player marks their own card with the score of the person they are marker for in the markers column.

We do not need photos to be submitted for any reason.


* except for those submitted via teh EG App
 

Voyager EMH

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We still submit physical cards for comps and general Play Cards* and have 2 PSI screens for score input, scores can be input via the IG app.
We have gone the route of player marks their own card with the score of the person they are marker for in the markers column.

We do not need photos to be submitted for any reason.


* except for those submitted via teh EG App
That's pretty much what we have. I'm registered as soon as I collect my card from the pro shop. Enter my score on the big screen immediately after finishing round and checked visually by playing partner. No fiddling about with a smartphone - great! Then I can check leaderboard and eventually the final result on howdidoody website later on at home on the laptop. Suits me.
 

Swango1980

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That's pretty much what we have. I'm registered as soon as I collect my card from the pro shop. Enter my score on the big screen immediately after finishing round and checked visually by playing partner. No fiddling about with a smartphone - great! Then I can check leaderboard and eventually the final result on howdidoody website later on at home on the laptop. Suits me.
We have had countless score entry errors by players. Whether on PSI screen, or phone, these errors are so easy. The marker may well verify their score on the card, but rarely verify what they type in on the computer. Our comp sec gets players to send a photo of the scorecard, and he'll check the scores of the top players in the comp.
 

Voyager EMH

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We have had countless score entry errors by players. Whether on PSI screen, or phone, these errors are so easy. The marker may well verify their score on the card, but rarely verify what they type in on the computer. Our comp sec gets players to send a photo of the scorecard, and he'll check the scores of the top players in the comp.
We get errors, of course - last major one was a 2 on a par 5. Big questions raised as soon as this was visible on leaderboard/twos/todays scores. Correct on the card, but typo on PSI. But we put all physical cards through a slot in wall to H&C office for further scrutiny as and when necessary. The unpaid job of H&C chairmen everywhere - you all have my admiration and appreciation.
 
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So pleased to have stepped back from h/c committee in Nov last year. Having listened to the constant moaning from single figure golfers that they cannot compete vs high handicappers, I produced and posted on the h/c noticeboard a simple table summarising (by handicap categories), % winners of stroke-play comps over 4 seasons (2014-2017) and % from each category entered. This captured 83 comps from the medal tees. Cat 1 won 28.9% of those comps with 8.4% of the entries, Cat 2 37.3%/29% Cat 3 26.5%/43.6% and Cat 4 6%/19% (no info on the balance).
One would think that would stop the moans from low handicappers. Not at all.
And don't get me started on the 2's sweep. Golf clubs and their governing bodies are largely run by low-handicappers. I'm sure the 5% discount has a sound mathematical basis but it is sweet music to the ears of anyone below a h/c of 11 - me included!
 

rulefan

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So pleased to have stepped back from h/c committee in Nov last year. Having listened to the constant moaning from single figure golfers that they cannot compete vs high handicappers, I produced and posted on the h/c noticeboard a simple table summarising (by handicap categories), % winners of stroke-play comps over 4 seasons (2014-2017) and % from each category entered. This captured 83 comps from the medal tees. Cat 1 won 28.9% of those comps with 8.4% of the entries, Cat 2 37.3%/29% Cat 3 26.5%/43.6% and Cat 4 6%/19% (no info on the balance).
One would think that would stop the moans from low handicappers. Not at all.
And don't get me started on the 2's sweep. Golf clubs and their governing bodies are largely run by low-handicappers. I'm sure the 5% discount has a sound mathematical basis but it is sweet music to the ears of anyone below a h/c of 11 - me included!
It would be interesting to see a similar table after 4 seasons of WHS. CONGU did no favours for older high handicappers only getting 0.1 when they progressively got older and played over their buffer every time.
 

Swango1980

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So pleased to have stepped back from h/c committee in Nov last year. Having listened to the constant moaning from single figure golfers that they cannot compete vs high handicappers, I produced and posted on the h/c noticeboard a simple table summarising (by handicap categories), % winners of stroke-play comps over 4 seasons (2014-2017) and % from each category entered. This captured 83 comps from the medal tees. Cat 1 won 28.9% of those comps with 8.4% of the entries, Cat 2 37.3%/29% Cat 3 26.5%/43.6% and Cat 4 6%/19% (no info on the balance).
One would think that would stop the moans from low handicappers. Not at all.
And don't get me started on the 2's sweep. Golf clubs and their governing bodies are largely run by low-handicappers. I'm sure the 5% discount has a sound mathematical basis but it is sweet music to the ears of anyone below a h/c of 11 - me included!
I've no issue whatsoever for high handicappers with a good number of scores in their history. Pre or Post WHS.

My only issue is the initial handicap allocation to new golfers who submit scores is rather generous, especially when those 3 scores are not very good and generate a high handicap index. They then go and practice because they do not want to play badly in their first comp, and within 2 or 3 comps shoot 45+ points fairly easily (assuming they have not submitted a load of general play scores in between). Again, this is not criticism of WHS, as it was a problem before WHS as well. But, it is something that could have been addressed better, in my opinion, in the "fewer than 20 scores" table in WHS, by subtracting higher numbers off players with higher initial indices, and then refining this as they submit more scores as they build to their full record of 20.

But, I also agree, it is tiring hearing low handicappers moan when a higher handicapper wins, even if that high handicapper has played for years under a settled handicap.
 

rulefan

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I've no issue whatsoever for high handicappers with a good number of scores in their history. Pre or Post WHS.

My only issue is the initial handicap allocation to new golfers who submit scores is rather generous, especially when those 3 scores are not very good and generate a high handicap index. They then go and practice because they do not want to play badly in their first comp, and within 2 or 3 comps shoot 45+ points fairly easily (assuming they have not submitted a load of general play scores in between). Again, this is not criticism of WHS, as it was a problem before WHS as well. But, it is something that could have been addressed better, in my opinion, in the "fewer than 20 scores" table in WHS, by subtracting higher numbers off players with higher initial indices, and then refining this as they submit more scores as they build to their full record of 20.

But, I also agree, it is tiring hearing low handicappers moan when a higher handicapper wins, even if that high handicapper has played for years under a settled handicap.
It seems an increasing number of clubs are requiring a minimum number of 'qualifying' scores for competition prizes.
 

wjemather

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I've no issue whatsoever for high handicappers with a good number of scores in their history. Pre or Post WHS.

My only issue is the initial handicap allocation to new golfers who submit scores is rather generous, especially when those 3 scores are not very good and generate a high handicap index. They then go and practice because they do not want to play badly in their first comp, and within 2 or 3 comps shoot 45+ points fairly easily (assuming they have not submitted a load of general play scores in between). Again, this is not criticism of WHS, as it was a problem before WHS as well. But, it is something that could have been addressed better, in my opinion, in the "fewer than 20 scores" table in WHS, by subtracting higher numbers off players with higher initial indices, and then refining this as they submit more scores as they build to their full record of 20.

But, I also agree, it is tiring hearing low handicappers moan when a higher handicapper wins, even if that high handicapper has played for years under a settled handicap.
I've seen more higher handicap players being kneecapped by one good score in their first three, which takes at least 6-8 scores before it even begins to average out, than those returning 45+ Stableford points. For example, one new member's initial index was assigned on the basis of 1 exceptional differential which remains over 7 lower than anything else he's put in after 9 scores; and another member had a good score in March 2019 (only 3 counting scores at transition) and it's taken her 6 more scores to start to average that out, with only one differential within 10 strokes of that old score.
 

Swango1980

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I've seen more higher handicap players being kneecapped by one good score in their first three, which takes at least 6-8 scores before it even begins to average out, than those returning 45+ Stableford points. For example, one new member's initial index was assigned on the basis of 1 exceptional differential which remains over 7 lower than anything else he's put in after 9 scores; and another member had a good score in March 2019 (only 3 counting scores at transition) and it's taken her 6 more scores to start to average that out, with only one differential within 10 strokes of that old score.
However, the fact he shot that one good score in 9 shows he has that potential. And by 9 scores, it uses his top 3ish to average out (top of my head). The beauty of WHS is it moves handicaps up more quickly anyway, so I don't think an extra penalty until more scores are in is overly unfair.

The issue is, it only takes one new golfer to come in with a spectacular score and win the comp, regardless if other new members don't have a good day.
 

Swango1980

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It seems an increasing number of clubs are requiring a minimum number of 'qualifying' scores for competition prizes.
Yeah, it is a shame clubs have to do that to protect the field against something the handicap system cannot cope with. I presume that is why they are doing it?
 

wjemather

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However, the fact he shot that one good score in 9 shows he has that potential. And by 9 scores, it uses his top 3ish to average out (top of my head). The beauty of WHS is it moves handicaps up more quickly anyway, so I don't think an extra penalty until more scores are in is overly unfair.

The issue is, it only takes one new golfer to come in with a spectacular score and win the comp, regardless if other new members don't have a good day.
WHS certainly gets players with an outstanding score in their first 3 onto a reasonable handicap a lot faster than UHS did (which generally required dozens of scores and/or a review).

Almost all exceptional scores we've seen have come from long time members with full handicap records. I really don't see any harm in the odd win in similar fashion for the newcomer.
 
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WHS certainly gets players with an outstanding score in their first 3 onto a reasonable handicap a lot faster than UHS did (which generally required dozens of scores and/or a review).

Almost all exceptional scores we've seen have come from long time members with full handicap records. I really don't see any harm in the odd win in similar fashion for the newcomer.
We had a Pro revert to amateur status last year. With county blessing, he submitted 3 cards from +1.5 (our then lowest club h/c) and shot around 2 to 3 h/c - which would be about the right level for his current golf. The old system gave him +3.5 - county have bumped this to EG - it remains unresolved.
 
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