rulefan
Tour Winner
Playing off HI will always favour the lower handicapper; more so on a more difficult course. As every course will have a conversion chart you don't have to 'work out' anything to play of Course Handicaps.
95% - why?
- Thread starter balaclava
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williamalex1
Money List Winner
Ok I'll try
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Crazyface
Tour Winner
Beware someone marking your card and accepting they know what they are doing! A bloke marking all of us in a comp on Tuesday was all over the place when it came down to stableford points giving me two less. As I turned to him as he queried my score (I was sat at the terminal), I said "......just let the computer sort it. As long as you agree with my scores, everything will be ok"
It's the only way to do it in comps.
It's the only way to do it in comps.
This is the thinking in my group at the moment. Forget the points, just enter the shots. The fun will start to be when cards have to be handed in again. There may need to be a few amendments at the terminal before dropping the card in the box.
BiMGuy
LIV Bot, (But Not As Big As Mel) ?
Isn't it the case that the only thing that has to be correct is the gross score for each hole?
It has been a long timw since I last handed in a comp card, but this is what I was taught by the HC Secretary at my old club.
rulefan
Tour Winner
That was and still is the case.
Yes, but in the real world 99.9% of golfers mark their shots and points in the same box. Get to the bottom of the card and those same 99.9% enter their stableford score and circle it.
The above is particularly the case for Opens.
If the gross score per hole is correct, the circled stableford score incorrect, does that matter if signed for and entered in the box?
davidy233
Tour Rookie
Only way to mark a card IMO - people who try to work out points during a round are for the watching
lobthewedge
Challenge Tour Pro
Last weekend my handicap index got cut to 0.0
Hoping to keep it that way for as long as possible, so i dont need to bother with all the calculations
Hoping to keep it that way for as long as possible, so i dont need to bother with all the calculations
IanM
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Not sure I follow your point. How hard is it to write down the gross score, and then the points in an adjacent box?
LincolnShep
Head Pro
It's slightly harder than not doing it; and some people need things made as simple as possible.
IanM
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you are of course completely correct. Reminds me of a conversation with a PP after 9 holes at Bath GC in a Society Day many years ago.... "Dave, I've got you 17 points?" "No, I make it 20," he said.
So, we ran through the gross scores and we both had exactly the same.
Turns out he was scoring on a card from HIS HOME COURSE, and hence, pars and stroke indexes were different. (How the heck did he just play a par 3 and score it as a 4 on the card????) But it happens!
Back on topic, goodness know what that guy is doing with WHS??
Swango1980
Well-known member
So, it might have been answered, but I will try and explain anyway in simple terms. But, before I do, my personal opinion, I do think it over complicates things and I would have preferred the allowance was effectively built within the Course Handicap (as the Australians look to have done).
The reason is, imagine a scratch golfer and a 30 Index golfer. The best 8 scores from the scratch golfer should have a much tighter range than the best 8 scores of a 30 Indexer. The course handicap is based on the average of these 8 scores. So, if the scratch golfer went out and shot his best round in 20, his score would be less under his average from the best 8 than if a 30 Indexer went out and shot his best score in 20. In other words, the 30 Indexer would beat the scratch golfer. Therefore, if you just assumed 100% of Course Handicap in a stroke play competition, then the larger the field is, the less and less likely a lower handicapper could win. Because there would be more and more higher handicappers, and therefore more and more chance at least one would have their best round in 20.
So, the 95% is applied in stroke play competitions to try and balance the odd for any golfer winning, off any ability. This figure based on the analysis of many scores (interestingly, australia use 93%). Also, the main WHS manual suggests the 95% only needs to be considered once field size exceeds 30 players. However, the national authority in UK makes this mandatory, regardless of field size.
Singles Match Play is a different story, as it is only one versus one. Yes, if the higher handicapper has his best round in 20, he'll beat the scratch player. However, the scratch player will be more consistent, so on balance would be expected to win more matches than he loses against the high handicapper (a little over 50% of matches, can't remember the exact value). That is why 100% of course handicap is used.
Similar analysis has then been done on numerous other formats, which is why we have all these playing handicap allowances.
The reason is, imagine a scratch golfer and a 30 Index golfer. The best 8 scores from the scratch golfer should have a much tighter range than the best 8 scores of a 30 Indexer. The course handicap is based on the average of these 8 scores. So, if the scratch golfer went out and shot his best round in 20, his score would be less under his average from the best 8 than if a 30 Indexer went out and shot his best score in 20. In other words, the 30 Indexer would beat the scratch golfer. Therefore, if you just assumed 100% of Course Handicap in a stroke play competition, then the larger the field is, the less and less likely a lower handicapper could win. Because there would be more and more higher handicappers, and therefore more and more chance at least one would have their best round in 20.
So, the 95% is applied in stroke play competitions to try and balance the odd for any golfer winning, off any ability. This figure based on the analysis of many scores (interestingly, australia use 93%). Also, the main WHS manual suggests the 95% only needs to be considered once field size exceeds 30 players. However, the national authority in UK makes this mandatory, regardless of field size.
Singles Match Play is a different story, as it is only one versus one. Yes, if the higher handicapper has his best round in 20, he'll beat the scratch player. However, the scratch player will be more consistent, so on balance would be expected to win more matches than he loses against the high handicapper (a little over 50% of matches, can't remember the exact value). That is why 100% of course handicap is used.
Similar analysis has then been done on numerous other formats, which is why we have all these playing handicap allowances.
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
The part ive put in bold - totally agree. No one would have questioned it - Index, Playing handicap for set of tees you choose (from the board) - away you go!
ForeRight
Newbie
You sign for the gross scores on 18 holes, not the points or the arithmetic.
sunshine
Well-known member
The crazy thing is that someone with a HI of 54 actually gets 64 shots at my course. 64!! So we will probably now have 36 handicappers (I guess they are mid-handicappers now) moaning about the "higher handicappers" getting too many shots.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Is that with or without the 95% applied? ?
sunshine
Well-known member
don't even go there.But imagine playing match play against them? They get 4 shots on 10 holes, and 3 shots on the other 8. "I'm just going to tap that in for a 9 nett par."
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Four shots on a hole, Jesus. If that isn't a flaw in the system I don't know what is. Imagine bagging a point for an 8 on a par three.
But imagine playing match play against them? They get 4 shots on 10 holes, and 3 shots on the other 8. "I'm just going to tap that in for a 9 nett par."
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