9 Hole Differentials in WHS

[rulie]

A score differential will be calculated for each 9-hole score using their handicap index on the day of play.

So they will have two 18 hole differentials for that day?
Is it mandatory to enter hole-by-hole scores? We've had the situation where the player played two 9 hole rounds in the same day with the same total score and, when entering total score only, the "system" considered it a duplication and wouldn't accept the second one.

 

[wjemather]

So they will have two 18 hole differentials for that day?
Is it mandatory to enter hole-by-hole scores? We've had the situation where the player played two 9 hole rounds in the same day with the same total score and, when entering total score only, the "system" considered it a duplication and wouldn't accept the second one.

Yes, they will have 2 x 18-hole score differentials.
In GB&I players can only enter hole by hole scores - only handicap secs can enter adjusted gross total scores.

 

[rulefan]

Is it mandatory to enter hole-by-hole scores? We've had the situation where the player played two 9 hole rounds in the same day with the same total score and, when entering total score only, the "system" considered it a duplication and wouldn't accept the second one.

Into what app or system was he entering scores? Was he in the US?

 

[rulie]

Into what app or system was he entering scores? Was he in the US?

Not in the US, but in North America.

 

[LIG]

Resurected with a follow up question..

Played 18 holes as two 9 hole rounds yesterday with another member.
Prior to starting, we used MyEG to register for a 9 hole round (front nine). After 9 holes, we decided to continue and therefore registered for another 9 hole round (back nine).

Having submitted the scores, I can see in my record the score differentials but they seems to be no way to calculate them. Which has led me to.... "expected 9 hole score diffentials".

Is there a lookup table available for the "expected 9 hole score diffentials" ? If so, where can I get a copy/look at it?

 

[D-S]

Resurected with a follow up question..

Played 18 holes as two 9 hole rounds yesterday with another member.
Prior to starting, we used MyEG to register for a 9 hole round (front nine). After 9 holes, we decided to continue and therefore registered for another 9 hole round (back nine).

Having submitted the scores, I can see in my record the score differentials but they seems to be no way to calculate them. Which has led me to.... "expected 9 hole score diffentials".

Is there a lookup table available for the "expected 9 hole score diffentials" ? If so, where can I get a copy/look at it?

No there isn’t. The algorithm used to scale up scores it proprietary to the USGA and R&A. No one knows but some out there have suggested a rough formula but sorry can’t remember it.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Its a mystery

 

[jim8flog]

Resurected with a follow up question..

Played 18 holes as two 9 hole rounds yesterday with another member.
Prior to starting, we used MyEG to register for a 9 hole round (front nine). After 9 holes, we decided to continue and therefore registered for another 9 hole round (back nine).

Having submitted the scores, I can see in my record the score differentials but they seems to be no way to calculate them. Which has led me to.... "expected 9 hole score diffentials".

Is there a lookup table available for the "expected 9 hole score diffentials" ? If so, where can I get a copy/look at it?

You should be very careful resurrecting old threads where rules are concerned because they get changed, 2024 saw a change to the Rules Of Handicapping for example.

 

[LIG]

You should be very careful resurrecting old threads where rules are concerned because they get changed, 2024 saw a change to the Rules Of Handicapping for example.

Thanks for that but as you don't know me I can tell you that the advice is superfluous.
As far as OTHER people getting the wrong end of the stick due to their own misunderstanding of Rules of Golf/Handicapping/Amateur Status, or reading posts in a thread without fully understanding (that advice on Rules etc. is temporary) then I see that as THEIR problem, not mine.

D-S - I was hoping to add it into my spreadsheet to automate the HI calculation process for 9hole rounds but will manually keep a track of changes for the time being. Who knows, I might eventually work out a lookup table for my own HI - I already have two entries!!

 

[woofers]

Resurected with a follow up question..

Played 18 holes as two 9 hole rounds yesterday with another member.
Prior to starting, we used MyEG to register for a 9 hole round (front nine). After 9 holes, we decided to continue and therefore registered for another 9 hole round (back nine).

Having submitted the scores, I can see in my record the score differentials but they seems to be no way to calculate them. Which has led me to.... "expected 9 hole score diffentials".

Is there a lookup table available for the "expected 9 hole score diffentials" ? If so, where can I get a copy/look at it?

How do the two score differentials for each 9 relate to the score differential if you had submitted an 18 hole round?

I have a player (HI 7.6) who has submitted 2 9 hole scores on the same day:
F9 Par 35 Slope 115, CR 35.1, Score 38, score differential calculated at 8.0
B9 Par 35 Slope 121, CR 35.4, Score 37, score differential calculated at 6.6

If he had submitted an 18 hole round:
Par 70, Slope 118, CR 70.5, score 75, score differential would be 4.3

So he now has 2 qualifying scores on his record which would count toward any requirement to have “x scores in the last x months” criteria for some competition terms and score differentials that I can’t see or calculate how they relate to the scores posted.
I am generally positive about WHS but this has me baffled.

 

[rulefan]

How do the two score differentials for each 9 relate to the score differential if you had submitted an 18 hole round?

I have a player (HI 7.6) who has submitted 2 9 hole scores on the same day:
F9 Par 35 Slope 115, CR 35.1, Score 38, score differential calculated at 8.0
B9 Par 35 Slope 121, CR 35.4, Score 37, score differential calculated at 6.6

If he had submitted an 18 hole round:
Par 70, Slope 118, CR 70.5, score 75, score differential would be 4.3

So he now has 2 qualifying scores on his record which would count toward any requirement to have “x scores in the last x months” criteria for some competition terms and score differentials that I can’t see or calculate how they relate to the scores posted.
I am generally positive about WHS but this has me baffled.

The handicap committee should ask him exactly why he submitted 2 x 9 rather than 18.

 

[Neilds]

How do the two score differentials for each 9 relate to the score differential if you had submitted an 18 hole round?

I have a player (HI 7.6) who has submitted 2 9 hole scores on the same day:
F9 Par 35 Slope 115, CR 35.1, Score 38, score differential calculated at 8.0
B9 Par 35 Slope 121, CR 35.4, Score 37, score differential calculated at 6.6

If he had submitted an 18 hole round:
Par 70, Slope 118, CR 70.5, score 75, score differential would be 4.3

So he now has 2 qualifying scores on his record which would count toward any requirement to have “x scores in the last x months” criteria for some competition terms and score differentials that I can’t see or calculate how they relate to the scores posted.
I am generally positive about WHS but this has me baffled.

At our place the criteria is for “x 18 hole scores in the last 12 months” so if that was what he was trying to do then he has failed

 

[Voyager EMH]

How do the two score differentials for each 9 relate to the score differential if you had submitted an 18 hole round?

I have a player (HI 7.6) who has submitted 2 9 hole scores on the same day:
F9 Par 35 Slope 115, CR 35.1, Score 38, score differential calculated at 8.0
B9 Par 35 Slope 121, CR 35.4, Score 37, score differential calculated at 6.6

I can’t see or calculate how they relate to the scores posted.
I am generally positive about WHS but this has me baffled.

Very interesting.

The 8.0 represents a gross score of 78.34
The 38 that he actually scored and 40.34 as an expected score for the same nine holes played.
(78.34 - 70.2) x 113/115 = 8.0

The 6.6 represents a gross score of 77.867
The 37 that he actually scored and 40.867 as an expected score for the same nine holes played
(77.867 - 70.8) x 113/121 = 6.6

How they arrive at these expected scores I do not know. It is being withheld.

I have noted that a doubling of the expected scores to 80.68 and 81.73 renders Score Differentials of 10.3 and 10.2
This might be a calculation of an average across last 20 scores, but I'm only speculating.

Under the previous system that gave us nine-nett-pars-plus-one-shot, and a handicap adjustment for the "scaling -up nine holes", I remember converting all my 20 scores to the front nine scores only and calculation the subsequent score differentials.
My HI resulted in something around 2.0 higher.
Something similar might be occurring, but I do not know, and will not know, unless they let us have the formula.

 

[D-S]

Very interesting.

The 8.0 represents a gross score of 78.34
The 38 that he actually scored and 40.34 as an expected score for the same nine holes played.
(78.34 - 70.2) x 113/115 = 8.0

The 6.6 represents a gross score of 77.867
The 37 that he actually scored and 40.867 as an expected score for the same nine holes played
(77.867 - 70.8) x 113/121 = 6.6

How they arrive at these expected scores I do not know. It is being withheld.

I have noted that a doubling of the expected scores to 80.68 and 81.73 renders Score Differentials of 10.3 and 10.2
This might be a calculation of an average across last 20 scores, but I'm only speculating.

Under the previous system that gave us nine-nett-pars-plus-one-shot, and a handicap adjustment for the "scaling -up nine holes", I remember converting all my 20 scores to the front nine scores only and calculation the subsequent score differentials.
My HI resulted in something around 2.0 higher.
Something similar might be occurring, but I do not know, and will not know, unless they let us have the formula.

I seem to recall that someone posted a rough rule of thumb calculation that closely mirrored the result in the real algorithm - unfortunately I can't remember where it was posted.

 

[jim8flog]

How do the two score differentials for each 9 relate to the score differential if you had submitted an 18 hole round?

I have a player (HI 7.6) who has submitted 2 9 hole scores on the same day:
F9 Par 35 Slope 115, CR 35.1, Score 38, score differential calculated at 8.0
B9 Par 35 Slope 121, CR 35.4, Score 37, score differential calculated at 6.6

If he had submitted an 18 hole round:
Par 70, Slope 118, CR 70.5, score 75, score differential would be 4.3

So he now has 2 qualifying scores on his record which would count toward any requirement to have “x scores in the last x months” criteria for some competition terms and score differentials that I can’t see or calculate how they relate to the scores posted.
I am generally positive about WHS but this has me baffled.

The handicap committee should ask him exactly why he submitted 2 x 9 rather than 18.

At our place the criteria is for “x 18 hole scores in the last 12 months” so if that was what he was trying to do then he has failed

Where I play you can only do a 9 hole score on our 9 hole course.

As rounds have to be preregistered you have to declare if you are doing a 9 or an 18 hole round. If signing up for 9 and deciding at the end of it you are going to do another 9 you will have to preregister a second time.

It is one of the slight failings to the change of the WHS when changing to scaling up rather than adding two 9s together. A slight change could be two 9s on the same day will be added together.

 

[woofers]

The handicap committee should ask him exactly why he submitted 2 x 9 rather than 18.

Thanks, that will be followed up, it is probably the case similar to LIG, post #25. The tee sheet shows the player registering for a 9 hole round and perhaps unsure how to deal with the “registered for 9, now playing 18” situation. The general play report shows that the B9 was registered on the EG App minutes after the F9 score was submitted.
My inclination is to consider this as one 18 hole round, remove the two 9 hole scores and re-input them as one 18 hole round.
Is this the right thing to do? I don’t think there is guidance in the Rules of Handicapping on this, it is likely to be a case of the Handicap Committee making a judgement on an individual case basis. But does the player have any right to insist they remain as 2 separate records? The system allows it, the Rules are silent.
My defence would be continuation of the round.
However, there may be a different outcome if the front 9 was played in the morning, and the back 9 played late afternoon.

 

[woofers]

As rounds have to be preregistered you have to declare if you are doing a 9 or an 18 hole round. If signing up for 9 and deciding at the end of it you are going to do another 9 you will have to preregister a second time.

Which is what he did by downloading the scorecard onto the EG App before commencing the back 9.

Why can’t you submit a 9 hole score on your 18 hole course? Is it because it hasn’t been rated for 9 hole scores?

 

[wjemather]

Which is what he did by downloading the scorecard onto the EG App before commencing the back 9.

Why can’t you submit a 9 hole score on your 18 hole course? Is it because it hasn’t been rated for 9 hole scores?

All 18-hole courses are rated as two separate 9s.

 

[woofers]

All 18-hole courses are rated as two separate 9s.

So presumably it’s a local decision, can they do that?

 

[rulefan]

So presumably it’s a local decision, can they do that?

The committee should look at all the circumstances (eg the player may not have understood how to handle it) and correct (or not) the situation appropriately.