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3 minutes to find ball

Colin L said:
We are in the physical world of people on golf courses not a metaphysics tutorial so spare us the trees falling in a forest. The bolded statement is just plain wrong. A rule break occurs because something has happened which is against the rules. It may go unnoticed by the player, by other players, by spectators etc but the event has occurred.

I am sorry that my efforts to explain the rules in this regard have been unsuccessful and sorrier still that they have been met in part by mockery and in one instance by insult. That's not common in this forum and i hope it will stay uncommon.
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Without wanting to reignite this for another day, my point was simply that it can't be considered a rule break if not a single person acknowledges or knows that a rule has been broken can it? Or maybe it is, but it is completely irrelevant and meaningless. That's why I likened it to the tree falling in a forest and does it make a sound - because sound has to be received by an ear to be interpreted as sound. It's the same thing.
 
Orikoru said:
Without wanting to reignite this for another day, my point was simply that it can't be considered a rule break if not a single person acknowledges or knows that a rule has been broken can it? Or maybe it is, but it is completely irrelevant and meaningless. That's why I likened it to the tree falling in a forest and does it make a sound - because sound has to be received by an ear to be interpreted as sound. It's the same thing.
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It still makes a sound .
 
patricks148 said:
me either, but i do have a 5 min timer on my Trolley, which is 5min then flashes when the 5 is up...obv the flashing isn't much use but if we are in a match i try and use it
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Is this timer actually part of the trolley facilities (rather than something you've added)?
Because if it is, then here's another example of something that's been designed without thought for its purpose. Of course you're not going to be looking at it while searching! It should obviously have an audible alarm. It's not rocket science.
 
cliveb said:
Is this timer actually part of the trolley facilities (rather than something you've added)?
Because if it is, then here's another example of something that's been designed without thought for its purpose. Of course you're not going to be looking at it while searching! It should obviously have an audible alarm. It's not rocket science.
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I would suggest this additional feature on the trolley was designed a few years back and relevant to when five minutes was allowed to search and so was fit for that purpose. The rule changes have usurped that. The biggest problem I see with that and any updated versions thereof is that a trolley isn't always near the search area and so spotting a flashing light isn't viable. An audible alarm would be good
 
HomerJSimpson said:
I would suggest this additional feature on the trolley was designed a few years back and relevant to when five minutes was allowed to search and so was fit for that purpose. The rule changes have usurped that. The biggest problem I see with that and any updated versions thereof is that a trolley isn't always near the search area and so spotting a flashing light isn't viable. An audible alarm would be good
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Just to clarify - I wasn't talking about the 5min issue - just the lack of an audible alarm.
 
cliveb said:
Is this timer actually part of the trolley facilities (rather than something you've added)?
Because if it is, then here's another example of something that's been designed without thought for its purpose. Of course you're not going to be looking at it while searching! It should obviously have an audible alarm. It's not rocket science.
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yes its a Motocaddy from about 5 years ago. i'd imagine its doesn't have an audible alarm deliberately, you wouldn;t want alarms going off across the course while people are playing. not much use now they changed the search time.
 
Orikoru said:
Without wanting to reignite this for another day, my point was simply that it can't be considered a rule break if not a single person acknowledges or knows that a rule has been broken can it? Or maybe it is, but it is completely irrelevant and meaningless. That's why I likened it to the tree falling in a forest and does it make a sound - because sound has to be received by an ear to be interpreted as sound. It's the same thing.
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Simple question - if a 4 ball enter a competition and not one of the players knew any of the rules of golf, would that in any way be considered cheating ?
 
chrisd said:
Simple question - if a 4 ball enter a competition and not one of the players knew any of the rules of golf, would that in any way be considered cheating ?
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What if the 4 ball enter the comp know the rules but nobody wears a watch, carries a stop watch but has to find a ball would it be assumed they're all cheating
 
I usually have my phone in my left hand pocket. As I approach the area and if it looks unpromising I simply pull out the phone and say "hey Siri, set timer 3 minutes". Phone back in pocket, and when it goes off I head for my provisional. If I go to help somebody else I'll do the same, If the timer goes off then 3 minutes has definitely elapsed as they had started searching before I got there. I will then leave them to it - if they find it and play it it's a conversation. That way we aren't holding people up unnecessarily, I don't have to wade through the bundu endlessly, and I know that I am adhering to the rules.
 
chrisd said:
They may be carrying an egg timer
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Really many people carry egg timers as essential golfing kit.. Plus that's just dodging the question. If someone doesn't have a timing device would you assume they're all cheating

Seriously if a group are playing and don't have a means of timing their search are you saying they're all likely to be cheating. Like others I've never once played a round where a timer of any description has been used when searching for a ball. This includes as a junior playing County events never once was a timer used then, club events now or in matches elsewhere. Never once have I thought to accuse someone of cheating, time gets called at an estimate and people move on.

I've a knockout match this evening if I need help my opponent search I will but I wouldn't think to time him. I don't wear a watch, nor do I have a stop watch, egg timer. My GPS doesn't display the time when in DMD mode and I leave my phone off in my bag out of courtesy to my PP.
 
Wolf said:
Really many people carry egg timers as essential golfing kit.. Plus that's just dodging the question. If someone doesn't have a timing device would you assume they're all cheating

Seriously if a group are playing and don't have a means of timing their search are you saying they're all likely to be cheating. Like others I've never once played a round where a timer of any description has been used when searching for a ball. This includes as a junior playing County events never once was a timer used then, club events now or in matches elsewhere. Never once have I thought to accuse someone of cheating, time gets called at an estimate and people move on.

I've a knockout match this evening if I need help my opponent search I will but I wouldn't think to time him. I don't wear a watch, nor do I have a stop watch, egg timer. My GPS doesn't display the time when in DMD mode and I leave my phone off in my bag out of courtesy to my PP.
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What I think is that the rules are specific and 3 minutes search time is a precise limit. Players, knowing this, should put themselves in a position that they can comply with the rule which, after all, is one of the rules that every golfer should (and probably does) know. Whether not being able, willing or prepared to time a search properly it is still a matter of fact as to when the time limit has been exceeded and failure to play precisely to that rule is a penalty.

If you dont take a timing device on the course but never ever spend more than 3 minutes searching for your ball then you clearly are not cheating.
 
chrisd said:
What I think is that the rules are specific and 3 minutes search time is a precise limit. Players, knowing this, should put themselves in a position that they can comply with the rule which, after all, is one of the rules that every golfer should (and probably does) know. Whether not being able, willing or prepared to time a search properly it is still a matter of fact as to when the time limit has been exceeded and failure to play precisely to that rule is a penalty.

If you dont take a timing device on the course but never ever spend more than 3 minutes searching for your ball then you clearly are not cheating.
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I'm not questioning the rule, I agree with it and think it's better than the 5minute rule was.

I'm not questioning the matter of fact either that once it's elapsed you have to move on. I'm questioning the timing of how it's done and how in the opinions of some they think that those who don't time are more likely to cheat not only in this instance but in other areas.

I know you haven't done that but I was merely responding to your post at the time. About if someone doesn't know the rules are they cheats, hence my question if they don't have a timing device are they to be assumed to be cheats which many in this thread have alluded to.
 
chrisd said:
Simple question - if a 4 ball enter a competition and not one of the players knew any of the rules of golf, would that in any way be considered cheating ?
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Cheating is willfully breaking the rules, so if you don't know them you can't really be cheating. That's not really related to what we're talking about though.
 
The way I see it, everyone has a responsibility to ensure that they - and their PPs - adhere to the rules, especially when it comes to club competitions and matches. With respect to this thread I have no problem with either timing myself, or being timed by a PP (a simple 'would anyone mind just timing this and let me know when 3 mins is up' is all it needs) when searching for a ball.

When I'm just having a friendly knock with my mates, we hardly spend any time searching for balls - very much the 'CBFA - it was a sh!t shot it deserves to be lost' approach!!!;):D
 
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