3-Man Scramble in "HowDidIDo"

[Arthur Wedge]

Or play on a team with more varied handicaps of high and low. That will give you more shots and you might meet some different people

So basically get some high handicappers into the team to help be more competitive in the format

Does that not mean that it’s an allowance format that favours high handicaps - doesn’t seem very fair does it

 

[D-S]

The only issue I have with mandatory Scramble handicaps is that there are many variations in the format, how many drives, should one be from a par 3, step aside etc. Then I have seen variations in the rules - drop or place in bunker, drop or place everywhere, standing behind player on line of putt. It is difficult to imagine that a one size fits, in allowance terms, all is the most accurate.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

The only issue I have with mandatory Scramble handicaps is that there are many variations in the format, how many drives, should one be from a par 3, step aside etc. Then I have seen variations in the rules - drop or place in bunker, drop or place everywhere, standing behind player on line of putt. It is difficult to imagine that a one size fits, in allowance terms, all is the most accurate.

It always used to be a format not covered by rules of golf etc but for some reason they dreamed up these allowances that ended up making no sense

Its supposed to be a fun format and tbe three we held all followed different allowances and rules on number of drives etc - it worked well and we had a variety of winners

 

[rulefan]

This morning we had an official senior's 3-Man texas scramble competition. Team handicap was calculated as 10% of the total of the 3 players Handicaps INDEXES! I've argued in the past that Handicap Index must always be converted to a Course Handicap before allowances are applied but it's hard work. Does anyone know if "HowDidIDo" accepts a 3-Man Scramble as a competition and works out the team handicap correctly using the WHS recommended 30%20%10% ?

If it is not being played to the 'Rules' why even bother with HDID

 

[wjemather]

What is not OK about everyone enjoying themselves in a fun competition that has no bearing on anyone outside of those playing?
Had we called it a Weegie scramble would it then have been OK? At what point can a private club not organise a fun competition?

This is just idiotic.
You're beyond help if you think following the rules (that clubs agree to abide by as part of their affiliation) makes a scramble not fun.

 

[Backache]

This is just idiotic.
You're beyond help if you think following the rules (that clubs agree to abide by as part of their affiliation) makes a scramble not fun.

I'm saying that there are other ways of having fun that needn't involve following a diktat laid down on high. If a club wishes to vary a format which was in no way controlled when any of these affiliations started. Why on earth shouldn't they. It's prigish pompsity to think that no club should ever vary anything when their members wish.
Frankly anyone devising such a rule is beneath contempt.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

So basically get some high handicappers into the team to help be more competitive in the format

Does that not mean that it’s an allowance format that favours high handicaps - doesn’t seem very fair does it

No it means stop moaning others have an advantage if your not willing to accept other ways of playing. All we ever hear is low handicaps moaning this or that comp favours higher handicaps. You have choices to play in it and give yourself a good chance by mixing handicaps, by playing with all low handicaps knowing your chances are minimal as they’ve always been in these events even before WHS or the choice to not play at all then moan you don’t play because woe is you being a low handicap. Also why does it have to be fair , you either play better, choose a more balanced team or accept the outcome. After all it’s you that always posts “we have a choice “

I’m one of the lowest handicaps at my club, compared to higher handicaps in board comps I have much less chance of winning. But I play as I enjoy testing myself and know that when it comes to scratch prizes and comps those roles reverse. We don’t hear high index players moaning they didn’t win the Club Championship because 2 handicap player shot a gross 70.

 

[AmandaJR]

Does anyone really play a scramble to win? Or not play it if they can't? Or change the rules so they can?

When I played a scramble was a fun, social event.

 

[Backache]

Does anyone really play a scramble to win? Or not play it if they can't? Or change the rules so they can?

When I played a scramble was a fun, social event.

Totally agree and the variants of scramble are very widespread. Which is why it makes no sense whatsoever to have a single compulsory handicapping system rather than an advisory suggestion that can be varied as local circumstances vary.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Does anyone really play a scramble to win? Or not play it if they can't? Or change the rules so they can?

When I played a scramble was a fun, social event.

Apparently some people call it a fun comp, then moan there’s no fun as they can’t compete

I take scrambles as a chance for people to have fun, have a real go at opening their shoulders having a go at the course in comfort of knowing they have others to step in if needed. I don’t care if I win one I just want to have a laugh, see the people I’m playing with have a go and see how low we can go. If you win bonus, if you don’t well as long as the company was good and the round didn’t take to long then everyone’s a winner.

 

[rulefan]

Apparently some people call it a fun comp, then moan there’s no fun as they can’t compete

I take scrambles as a chance for people to have fun, have a real go at opening their shoulders having a go at the course in comfort of knowing they have others to step in if needed. I don’t care if I win one I just want to have a laugh, see the people I’m playing with have a go and see how low we can go. If you win bonus, if you don’t well as long as the company was good and the round didn’t take to long then everyone’s a winner.

If scrambles are really a fun event and handicaps are adjusted to suit whoever is playing then I assume WHS handicaps are irrelevant.
I'm assuming some clubs are not that happy with the recommended handicaps but 'caps are being adjusted regardless anyway.
So I ask again, why is anyone bothered and why try to force the software to do something it's not designed for.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

No it means stop moaning others have an advantage if your not willing to accept other ways of playing. All we ever hear is low handicaps moaning this or that comp favours higher handicaps. You have choices to play in it and give yourself a good chance by mixing handicaps, by playing with all low handicaps knowing your chances are minimal as they’ve always been in these events even before WHS or the choice to not play at all then moan you don’t play because woe is you being a low handicap. Also why does it have to be fair , you either play better, choose a more balanced team or accept the outcome. After all it’s you that always posts “we have a choice “

I’m one of the lowest handicaps at my club, compared to higher handicaps in board comps I have much less chance of winning. But I play as I enjoy testing myself and know that when it comes to scratch prizes and comps those roles reverse. We don’t hear high index players moaning they didn’t win the Club Championship because 2 handicap player shot a gross 70.

There is a vast difference between a gross comp and a HC comp

HCs are there to supposedly balance it all out to give everyone a fair chance of competing

If an allowance has been created that’s meant it’s nearly impossible for low handicaps to have a sniff of a chance then that’s allowance is clearly wrong especially when it comes to scramble and the margin of error at any handicap

Maybe it should be a gross comp , but we will look at ways to balance it out

Does anyone really play a scramble to win? Or not play it if they can't? Or change the rules so they can?

When I played a scramble was a fun, social event.

Most club comps are the same , it’s all enjoyment but with a little bit of competition added in there , HC allowances etc are trying to make it so everyone can compete on a level playing field

Theses are normally very popular comps and there was always a reserve list with the tee sheet full

It’s the biggest complaint we get now and the comp will die awayb

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

There is a vast difference between a gross comp and a HC comp

HCs are there to supposedly balance it all out to give everyone a fair chance of competing

If an allowance has been created that’s meant it’s nearly impossible for low handicaps to have a sniff of a chance then that’s allowance is clearly wrong especially when it comes to scramble and the margin of error at any handicap

Maybe it should be a gross comp , but we will look at ways to balance it out





Most club comps are the same , it’s all enjoyment but with a little bit of competition added in there , HC allowances etc are trying to make it so everyone can compete on a level playing field

Theses are normally very popular comps and there was always a reserve list with the tee sheet full

It’s the biggest complaint we get now and the comp will die awayb

Absolute rubbish! You’re only differentiating because one favours you and the other favours the higher HC and that’s the point. Low guys are happy to have comps that favour them and gross score but soon as one favours Net and higher players they whinge about unfairness and not being able to win.

The fact you’re even saying about allowances give low guys no chance is proof of double standards. You’re happy to have them in your favour when it suits but not when it goes the other way, even suggesting maybe it should be gross that then swings it in favour of the lower guy not the handicap player, so as I said the low guys happy if it favours them and shifts the balance their way but not vice versa. It’s same everywhere we see it here regularly, we see it in clubs. Like you’ve constantly said “you have a choice”.

I’m a low guy and it doesn’t bother me at all because everyone gets a fair crack at all levels. I choose to play in handicap comps to play with different people and do my best, I equally play in scratch comps to test myself against players of similar or better ability.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Again

Absolute rubbish! You’re only differentiating because one favours you and the other favours the higher HC and that’s the point. Low guys are happy to have comps that favour them and gross score but soon as one favours Net and higher players they whinge about unfairness and not being able to win.

The fact you’re even saying about allowances give low guys no chance is proof of double standards. You’re happy to have them in your favour when it suits but not when it goes the other way, even suggesting maybe it should be gross that then swings it in favour of the lower guy not the handicap player, so as I said the low guys happy if it favours them and shifts the balance their way but not vice versa. It’s same everywhere we see it here regularly, we see it in clubs. Like you’ve constantly said “you have a choice”.

I’m a low guy and it doesn’t bother me at all because everyone gets a fair crack at all levels. I choose to play in handicap comps to play with different people and do my best, I equally play in scratch comps to test myself against players of similar or better ability.

You are missing the point wildly

Handicap comps shouldn’t favour anyone

Gross comps will favour the better players

Handicaps are in place to give a level playing field for all players regardless of their ability - that’s the whole idea of handicaps is it not

If handicaps are favouring high guys then there is something wrong with the system

There is nothing that I have said where I want allowances to favour anyone - it should be as level a playing field as possible

 

[Steve Wilkes]

Again


You are missing the point wildly

Handicap comps shouldn’t favour anyone

Gross comps will favour the better players

Handicaps are in place to give a level playing field for all players regardless of their ability - that’s the whole idea of handicaps is it not

If handicaps are favouring high guys then there is something wrong with the system

There is nothing that I have said where I want allowances to favour anyone - it should be as level a playing field as possible

I don't think the sysyem favours 'high guys' per se, A group of 4 lows, has just the same chance as 4 highs in a two group comp. Its just there are normally more highish groups and their range will be greater, making it harder for the lows

 

[PaulMdj]

I don't think the sysyem favours 'high guys' per se, A group of 4 lows, has just the same chance as 4 highs in a two group comp. Its just there are normally more highish groups and their range will be greater, making it harder for the lows

Exactly the same reasons Clubs introduced Divisions in Ind Comps. Low handicappers moaning.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Again


You are missing the point wildly

Handicap comps shouldn’t favour anyone

Gross comps will favour the better players

Handicaps are in place to give a level playing field for all players regardless of their ability - that’s the whole idea of handicaps is it not

If handicaps are favouring high guys then there is something wrong with the system

There is nothing that I have said where I want allowances to favour anyone - it should be as level a playing field as possible

Im absolutely not missing the point wildly. I simply don’t agree with you that’s very different to what you claim I’m doing.

You don’t like it when people have an opinion you can’t change. You’re happy to have it in your favour but anything that doesn’t do that you claim is unfair.

Nothing further to add

 

[wjemather]

Absolute rubbish! You’re only differentiating because one favours you and the other favours the higher HC and that’s the point. Low guys are happy to have comps that favour them and gross score but soon as one favours Net and higher players they whinge about unfairness and not being able to win.

The fact you’re even saying about allowances give low guys no chance is proof of double standards. You’re happy to have them in your favour when it suits but not when it goes the other way, even suggesting maybe it should be gross that then swings it in favour of the lower guy not the handicap player, so as I said the low guys happy if it favours them and shifts the balance their way but not vice versa. It’s same everywhere we see it here regularly, we see it in clubs. Like you’ve constantly said “you have a choice”.

I’m a low guy and it doesn’t bother me at all because everyone gets a fair crack at all levels. I choose to play in handicap comps to play with different people and do my best, I equally play in scratch comps to test myself against players of similar or better ability.

Almost spot on.
The thing is, the current system doesn't actually favour higher handicaps (except as a group in large fields due to the increased probability of one of them having an exceptional day - however, this is an issue with all handicap systems and one easily mitigated by committees in charge of competitions).
It just doesn't favour low handicaps, and that's such a big shift from where we were before it just seems like a disadvantage to those not looking at the whole picture - but again, it is just a perception and not the reality, which is that low handicappers can and do win prizes in handicap comps, just no longer in grossly disproportionate frequency to their number.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I don't think the sysyem favours 'high guys' per se, A group of 4 lows, has just the same chance as 4 highs in a two group comp. Its just there are normally more highish groups and their range will be greater, making it harder for the lows

The HC shouldn’t favour anyone - it’s all about levelling out the playing field

Does feel strange that at times the better you get at the sport it’s seen to be harder to win which imo encourages people to keep their HC higher

Wonder what it would be like if all HCs were removed and then played in divisions of their relevant ability

Don’t think there is a perfect answer but I think something needs to change before some comps just die away , we are seeing more people wanting to play social golf rather than comps - it’s a shame to see

 

[PaulMdj]

The HC shouldn’t favour anyone - it’s all about levelling out the playing field

Does feel strange that at times the better you get at the sport it’s seen to be harder to win which imo encourages people to keep their HC higher

Wonder what it would be like if all HCs were removed and then played in divisions of their relevant ability

Don’t think there is a perfect answer but I think something needs to change before some comps just die away , we are seeing more people wanting to play social golf rather than comps - it’s a shame to see

Is this just your experience at your place though?

As a pure coincidence we have our first Texas Scramble next week snd the sheet opened tonight, as 2 minutes ago the sheet is full from 06:50 to 12:40, 36 Teams.

Looking at the teams, one team has handicaps of +2, 3, 6 & 7 upto another team with handicaps of 16, 20, 22 & 27.

Those 2 are the extremes, every other team has a mix, some single figure teams, some in the high teens.

Comp will be with the WHS allowances and we have no issue getting people to play them.

Is it the way your committee are “selling” these comps that are the problem?