2022 Professional golf thread

[MarkT]

Normally with rules queries it's fairly easy to say who's right and who's pushing it but they all seemed to see it in a different way. Hopefully Berger won't come out of this too badly as don't think he was trying anything on. It's amazing that they couldn't get a proper TV angle given how many cameras there are there

 

[Slab]

Given the conviction of each player I'm surprised Berger didn't play two balls

How would forumers have handled the same scenario?

 

[Orikoru]

Given the conviction of each player I'm surprised Berger didn't play two balls

How would forumers have handled the same scenario?

Probably just compromised and drop it halfway between where each of us thought it should be. Hovland wasn't even willing to let him do that though by the sounds of it.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Given the conviction of each player I'm surprised Berger didn't play two balls

How would forumers have handled the same scenario?

With my eyesight I'd have had to trust my PPs.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

How would forumers have handled the same scenario?

If my 2 pp are adamant then I would accept what they say, even if I believed that I saw it differently. Remember, it was not just 1 player who saw it differently, it was both. Suck it up, don't moan, move on. I don't think Berger came out of it well but it will be forgotten in a couple of weeks time.

Ultimately, doesn't one of them have to sign the card still or does that not happen at pro level? He had to go with what Hovland and Dahmen saw if they were not going to budge.

 

[Slab]

If my 2 pp are adamant then I would accept what they say, even if I believed that I saw it differently. Remember, it was not just 1 player who saw it differently, it was both. Suck it up, don't moan, move on. I don't think Berger came out of it well but it will be forgotten in a couple of weeks time.

Ultimately, doesn't one of them have to sign the card still or does that not happen at pro level? He had to go with what Hovland and Dahmen saw if they were not going to budge.

Yeah I'd have to have gone with the location given by the 2 other players and assumed i was wrong

If it was played from where Berger thought, the other two players would've said that's a 'wrong place'
If it was played from where the other 2 said then Berger was convinced that was a 'wrong place' too

As I understand it he went with a compromise position between the two opinions... which is 100% a 'wrong place' because none of the three of them thought that that's where it crossed... so where's his penalty for deliberately playing a ball from a wrong place?

 

[SteveW86]

do we know what the distance was between where Berger and Hovland thought it crossed?

It did seem a bit strange that the rules official just said decide yourselves, to me this mean Berger could have just dropped where he thought it crossed. Though he could just have been saying that in the hope that Berger would go with the other two guys and if he didnt he would have stepped in. Without the correct camera angle you will never know though.

 

[garyinderry]

do we know what the distance was between where Berger and Hovland thought it crossed?

It did seem a bit strange that the rules official just said decide yourselves, to me this mean Berger could have just dropped where he thought it crossed. Though he could just have been saying that in the hope that Berger would go with the other two guys and if he didnt he would have stepped in. Without the correct camera angle you will never know though.

You can work it out fairly well by using the ball speed and the time it takes to reach a point on the camera that it seems to cross the hazard.

 

[SteveW86]

You can work it out fairly well by using the ball speed and the time it takes to reach a point on the camera that it seems to cross the hazard.

how far would you say then?

 

[Orikoru]

Yeah I'd have to have gone with the location given by the 2 other players and assumed i was wrong

If it was played from where Berger thought, the other two players would've said that's a 'wrong place'
If it was played from where the other 2 said then Berger was convinced that was a 'wrong place' too

As I understand it he went with a compromise position between the two opinions... which is 100% a 'wrong place' because none of the three of them thought that that's where it crossed... so where's his penalty for deliberately playing a ball from a wrong place?

Why are you assuming that all three of them can't be wrong?

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

Having been the “victim” of being given duff rulings by both playing partners in comps on 3 occasions, I’ve now decided I’m not going to listen to them any longer and do what I believe to be correct.

Previously, I wouldn’t have gone against the majority verdict to avoid antagonising and being possibly seen to be trying to gain an advantage. However, on all 3 occasions the ruling put me at a clear disadvantage and was incorrect so I will be doing my own thing moving forward. So in Berber’s situation, I’d have done what I thought to be correct and ignored their advices.

Scenario 1: Lost ball in GUR
Scenario 2: Caused ball to move at address
Scenario 3: Relief from a man made ‘obstacle’

 

[Orikoru]

Having been the “victim” of being given duff rulings by both playing partners in comps on 3 occasions, I’ve now decided I’m not going to listen to them any longer and do what I believe to be correct.

Previously, I wouldn’t have gone against the majority verdict to avoid antagonising and being possibly seen to be trying to gain an advantage. However, on all 3 occasions the ruling put me at a clear disadvantage and was incorrect so I will be doing my own thing moving forward. So in Berber’s situation, I’d have done what I thought to be correct and ignored their advices.

I always tend to compromise with the group because I never have that 100% conviction that I'm right with rulings to be honest. But if you're sure than there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[garyinderry]

how far would you say then?

Haha. I said "someone could" work it out. Not that I can. Just pointing out the technology is there to make a more educated call.

 

[phillarrow]

So...what would have happened if Berger simply refused to change from his intended drop position and then Hovland refused to accept he was correct? Is there a rule to cover this scenario?

 

[fundy]

You can work it out fairly well by using the ball speed and the time it takes to reach a point on the camera that it seems to cross the hazard.

was the shot on camera? from what the referee said I assumed they didnt have video to be able to advise further

 

[SyR]

So...what would have happened if Berger simply refused to change from his intended drop position and then Hovland refused to accept he was correct? Is there a rule to cover this scenario?

Playing two balls for the remainder of the hole seems like a reasonable solution, but not sure if that results in a different rule breach?
I think the compromise they did makes the most sense, they have to be comfortable to sign his card, as does he. I also haven't seen a zoomed out view of where each player thought the drop should be, I assume it wasn't more than 20 yards between spots?

 

[Orikoru]

So...what would have happened if Berger simply refused to change from his intended drop position and then Hovland refused to accept he was correct? Is there a rule to cover this scenario?

In that case Berger just plays on, and if it's later proven he dropped in the wrong place I guess he'd have penalty shots added, or maybe a DQ, I'm not sure. Hovland just finishes his round believing Berger is a cheat but can't do anything more about it, ha.

 

[Orikoru]

was the shot on camera? from what the referee said I assumed they didnt have video to be able to advise further

You can see it here on shot tracer https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/2022-professional-golf-thread.110822/page-32#post-2477080

I presume the referee could have got hold of that video if they had enough time.

 

[garyinderry]

was the shot on camera? from what the referee said I assumed they didnt have video to be able to advise further

It was on at least one camera. Down the line view.

 

[sunshine]

Having been the “victim” of being given duff rulings by both playing partners in comps on 3 occasions, I’ve now decided I’m not going to listen to them any longer and do what I believe to be correct.

Previously, I wouldn’t have gone against the majority verdict to avoid antagonising and being possibly seen to be trying to gain an advantage. However, on all 3 occasions the ruling put me at a clear disadvantage and was incorrect so I will be doing my own thing moving forward. So in Berber’s situation, I’d have done what I thought to be correct and ignored their advices.

Scenario 1: Lost ball in GUR
Scenario 2: Caused ball to move at address
Scenario 3: Relief from a man made ‘obstacle’

Simple answer: carry the rule book. The R&A app is pretty good for quickly resolving any conflicts.