2019 Cricket

[HomerJSimpson]

Fantastic win especially at 117-5 and brilliant partnership between Buttler and Woakes. Doesn't hide the fact Buttler had another poor game with the gloves and definitely made England's task harder with the missed chances, byes conceded etc. but not sure you can drop him after that innings

 

[Captainron]

Buttler might have batted well but he shouldn’t keep his place in the side because of that.

His keeping will cost more games than his batting wins. It’s a no brainier for me.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Buttler might have batted well but he shouldn’t keep his place in the side because of that.

His keeping will cost more games than his batting wins. It’s a no brainier for me.

Agreed. He is either in as a batsman or he isn't in. If he can't justify his place via his batting alone then off he goes. Bits and pieces players are never the answer.

 

[patricks148]

good innings from Butler.... at last, but his glove work.... is costing the side wickets, i think he has to be dropped for a better keeper.

not really a place for him in the side without someone else getting dropped.

 

[fundy]

Stokes out of the rest of the Pak series for personal reasons

 

[Captainron]

Stokes out of the rest of the Pak series for personal reasons

Flying back home to NZ to see his folks by the looks

 

[huds1475]

Bits and pieces players are never the answer.

Do you define such players as those who are specialists at none of their disciplines?

 

[huds1475]

Flying back home to NZ to see his folks by the looks

Fed up of putting with the flag in

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Do you define such players as those who are specialists at none of their disciplines?

I'd define them as those who are average, at the level discussed, at both of their disciplines, ie not really good enough as a batsman, bowler or keeper. They get picked because selectors hope they will chip in at both but the reality is they don't chip in frequently enough. Butler is a batsman who isn't quite good enough at Test level so picked up the gloves hoping that would help him. So far it has worked for him and his batting issues have been accepted.

An example would be someone who gets 20 odd runs, might get a wicket but it's at over 4 an over. They do neither well enough. Selectors would be better picking a specialist batsman, bowler or keeper. At least be in the side on merit for one thing.

Butler right now is a poor keeper who was picked on the basis he was good enough and his batting would make up for any deficiencies. It plainly has not until the last test but the success ratio is too low at test level to warrant it.

Bits and pieces players are not like a Woakes or Stokes for example who are not just excellent at one discipline but can genuinely offer something in both, Stokes exceptionally so.

A bit rambling but I would describe Root as a bits and pieces bowler. He can fill a gap, give the quicks a rest, might pinch a wicket but may get clubbed and be off after 1 over. He would never be in the team as a bowler. Thankfully he is a world class batsman ?

 

[Mudball]

I'd define them as those who are average, at the level discussed, at both of their disciplines, ie not really good enough as a batsman, bowler or keeper. They get picked because selectors hope they will chip in at both but the reality is they don't chip in frequently enough. Butler is a batsman who isn't quite good enough at Test level so picked up the gloves hoping that would help him. So far it has worked for him and his batting issues have been accepted.

An example would be someone who gets 20 odd runs, might get a wicket but it's at over 4 an over. They do neither well enough. Selectors would be better picking a specialist batsman, bowler or keeper. At least be in the side on merit for one thing.

Butler right now is a poor keeper who was picked on the basis he was good enough and his batting would make up for any deficiencies. It plainly has not until the last test but the success ratio is too low at test level to warrant it.

Bits and pieces players are not like a Woakes or Stokes for example who are not just excellent at one discipline but can genuinely offer something in both, Stokes exceptionally so.

A bit rambling but I would describe Root as a bits and pieces bowler. He can fill a gap, give the quicks a rest, might pinch a wicket but may get clubbed and be off after 1 over. He would never be in the team as a bowler. Thankfully he is a world class batsman ?

some intresting points in there.. Butler as a keeper being good or bad is up for debate. Equally, need to think of what makes the rest of the team. I remember watching Rahul Dravid - one of India's best middle order Test batsman keeping wickets. i remember they almost always had a long leg for him. So went and googled it. Came up with an interesting nugget.
https://cricketaddictor.com/cricket/rahul-dravid-reveals-how-sourav-ganguly-approachedhhim-for-wicket-keeping/

 

[Lord Tyrion]

some intresting points in there.. Butler as a keeper being good or bad is up for debate. Equally, need to think of what makes the rest of the team. I remember watching Rahul Dravid - one of India's best middle order Test batsman keeping wickets. i remember they almost always had a long leg for him. So went and googled it. Came up with an interesting nugget.
https://cricketaddictor.com/cricket/rahul-dravid-reveals-how-sourav-ganguly-approachedhhim-for-wicket-keeping/

I'm not sure there is much debate to be had in all honesty. Look how good the Pakistan keeper is in comparison, worlds apart. I think you can get away with it in the short form of the game, Dravid being an example, but not in Test cricket. I'd keep him in the 50 over format and 20 20 but not in Tests.

I totally get why they want it to work, it gives them extra flexibility, but if it costs wickets and so runs then it is a failed experiment. So what if you can squeeze an extra bowler in if Butler drops the two edges that bowler gets, misses the stumping off the spinner etc. The fashion now is very much wicket keeper batsman rather than wicket keeper who bats a bit. It has been like that since Alec Stewart picked up the gloves. We got away with it with him and Matt Prior but we have pretty much comporomised since then. I know my old school, pick the best keeper, view will not hold sway with the England selectors but for me the compromise right now is too great. Maybe watching the Pakistani keeper over the remaining two games will have the impact I want , particularly as we go away to India this winter and will need a decent keeper there.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I don't know the protocol for maintaining the bio-security of those involved in the Test series.

Can another player be added to the squad without first serving a period in quarantine?

If that is necessary then speculation over Buttler's place in the remaining two Tests is futile as there's not another keeper within the squad.

If, however, it is possible then I am in favour of giving the job to Foakes.

Until Stokes had to withdraw I would also have replaced Anderson with Crawley on the basis that Stokes would have been fit enough to bowl a full quota.

Anderson has been truly magnificent for England but, at 38, I just don't see him posing enough of a threat at the top level any longer. Certainly in this last game he never really troubled the Pakistani batsmen.

 

[Dan2501]

Quite some partnership between Jordan Cox and Jack Leaning. Kent declared at 530-1, unbeaten partnership of 423. 238* for Cox and 220* for Leaning. Pretty good going that.

 

[Pathetic Shark]

OK here is a real cricket nugget for you. Everyone knows about the Headingley match in 1981, Ian Botham making 149 and Bob Willis taking eight wickets for an amazing win over the Aussies. I remember about 200 kids crammed into the 6th form common room at school to watch it when the word went round about what was happening.

But did you know about the very next match played on that tour? Not the next Test but a one-day match between the Aussies and Scotland.

The Scots needed 14 to win off the final over. Wicket keeper Rodney Marsh put himself on to bowl …. and took a triple-wicket maiden.... can you imagine that happening now?

 

[Mudball]

I don't know the protocol for maintaining the bio-security of those involved in the Test series.

Can another player be added to the squad without first serving a period in quarantine?

If that is necessary then speculation over Buttler's place in the remaining two Tests is futile as there's not another keeper within the squad.

If, however, it is possible then I am in favour of giving the job to Foakes.

Until Stokes had to withdraw I would also have replaced Anderson with Crawley on the basis that Stokes would have been fit enough to bowl a full quota.

Anderson has been truly magnificent for England but, at 38, I just don't see him posing enough of a threat at the top level any longer. Certainly in this last game he never really troubled the Pakistani batsmen.

Highly likely the full squad would be in bio-secure - not just the playing X1. So they will find a replacement. Maybe this is an opportunity to get a proper keeper and play Butler as the batsman. Root can do this pie-chucking as the 6th bowler

 

[Tongo]

Quite some partnership between Jordan Cox and Jack Leaning. Kent declared at 530-1, unbeaten partnership of 423. 238* for Cox and 220* for Leaning. Pretty good going that.

Saw Jordan Cox batting in a Second XI game last year and thought then that he looked very useful.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Totally get that family comes first irrespective of what you do for a living and hope Stokes and his family are ok and things get sorted https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/53712110 On a plus side this break may do him a favour and a chance to rest the body again after a flurry of matches in a short period of time and so when he comes back he'll be fully refreshed, relaxed and ready to go

 

[Captainron]

OK here is a real cricket nugget for you. Everyone knows about the Headingley match in 1981, Ian Botham making 149 and Bob Willis taking eight wickets for an amazing win over the Aussies. I remember about 200 kids crammed into the 6th form common room at school to watch it when the word went round about what was happening.

But did you know about the very next match played on that tour? Not the next Test but a one-day match between the Aussies and Scotland.

The Scots needed 14 to win off the final over. Wicket keeper Rodney Marsh put himself on to bowl …. and took a triple-wicket maiden.... can you imagine that happening now?

That’s gold. Proper info that. ?

 

[fundy]

Stuart Broad pickled up a demerit point and a 15% fine for his conduct in the last test from the match referee. The funny bit is the match ref was his old man Chris

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Stuart Broad pickled up a demerit point and a 15% fine for his conduct in the last test from the match referee. The funny bit is the match ref was his old man Chris

I can imagine his old man has always been a hard taskmaster lol