2 hours 40 minutes

[Curls]

Speaking personally (with a very understanding other half and no kids) it doesn’t matter to me if I get home an hour earlier or later.

On a busy morning I wouldn't dream of going out in anything other than a 4 ball, and I don't. And I quite enjoy drawn comps which are 3 balls and while the pace is relatively slow, it's steady.

What does matter is if the course is not overly busy (in the afternoon) and as a two ball you run into 4 who won’t let you through because they are keeping up with the 4 in front of them. This happens pretty regularly, they’ve gone out as 8 or 12 together and want to finish together. Again the issue is not how quickly we could finish, it’s about waiting an age on every shot. Especially as we are reasonably long hitters so need to wait. If one group then the other left us through they would not really be finished any later than they would have (how long does it take a fast 2 ball to go through if timed properly after driving for example, 5 minutes?) and we would be able to keep a decent pace and rhythm. I’ve had plenty good starts ruined by this. The flip side is the 4 ball looking back saying “what’s the rush guys, enjoy the air”. If they were playing behind an 8 ball I'm pretty sure they wouldn't repeat that to each other.

 

[ArnoldArmChewer]

Is it quite a quick course? Short between tees etc. I can do a 2 ball at ours in 3hrs if no one else is in the way, not in a comp as filling in the card would slow us a bit, but I don't believe we could get to that time still.

I don't understand why marking a card should slow you down, the card marker simply marks it whilst the other player(s) is/are teeing off.

 

[duncan mackie]

Speaking personally (with a very understanding other half and no kids) it doesn’t matter to me if I get home an hour earlier or later.

On a busy morning I wouldn't dream of going out in anything other than a 4 ball, and I don't. And I quite enjoy drawn comps which are 3 balls and while the pace is relatively slow, it's steady.

What does matter is if the course is not overly busy (in the afternoon) and as a two ball you run into 4 who won’t let you through because they are keeping up with the 4 in front of them. This happens pretty regularly, they’ve gone out as 8 or 12 together and want to finish together. Again the issue is not how quickly we could finish, it’s about waiting an age on every shot. Especially as we are reasonably long hitters so need to wait. If one group then the other left us through they would not really be finished any later than they would have (how long does it take a fast 2 ball to go through if timed properly after driving for example, 5 minutes?) and we would be able to keep a decent pace and rhythm. I’ve had plenty good starts ruined by this. The flip side is the 4 ball looking back saying “what’s the rush guys, enjoy the air”. If they were playing behind an 8 ball I'm pretty sure they wouldn't repeat that to each other.

Whilst this without doubt the main pace of play issue for many, and the only practical solution is tee management, I'm afraid you underestimate the practical time impact for the first group letting you through in a 4 × 4 ball group where each group is playing at the same speed.
It's about 5 minutes (depends on the nature of the hole and where/how they play you through) to get you in position ahead of them....but when the group in front repeat the process they will be delayed another 5 minutes, then again, then again.
In an elastic situation these delays shouldn't stick, but such groups are rarely elastic!

I'm not in any way suggesting that group's shouldn't be played through in such situations, but as soon as you move from the simple '4 ball with space in front let's through faster group' it gets very disruptive very quickly.

 

[bluewolf]

Whilst this without doubt the main pace of play issue for many, and the only practical solution is tee management, I'm afraid you underestimate the practical time impact for the first group letting you through in a 4 × 4 ball group where each group is playing at the same speed.
It's about 5 minutes (depends on the nature of the hole and where/how they play you through) to get you in position ahead of them....but when the group in front repeat the process they will be delayed another 5 minutes, then again, then again.
In an elastic situation these delays shouldn't stick, but such groups are rarely elastic!

I'm not in any way suggesting that group's shouldn't be played through in such situations, but as soon as you move from the simple '4 ball with space in front let's through faster group' it gets very disruptive very quickly.

That's a great point actually. Simply accepting that you're in a slow group and that you'll let faster groups through does very little for the groups behind you. Every time you let a group through, the shock wave ripples back and causes additional delays.. That's why one slow group out at the beginning of the day can actually cause significant issues throughout the field, even if they behave impeccably and keep letting groups through..
Just accept that there is a pace of play, and make every effort to reach it..

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I don't understand why marking a card should slow you down, the card marker simply marks it whilst the other player(s) is/are teeing off.

That is always the aim but it doesn't always work as smoothly as that over 18 holes, for everyone in the group. Add in the occasional check as well whilst someone remembers what score they had on a hole and it just adds a little bit. No card, no need to stop, remember, fill anything in.

 

[clubchamp98]

It's not about "as quickly as possible". It's about getting round in a decent time. 3hrs 30 for a Comp 4 ball is achievable. If it takes longer than 4 hours, then someone, somewhere in the field is taking the piss..

Also, I'm quite happy to head into the bar after a round for a social drink and a bite to eat. However, if the round takes over 4 hours, then I'm probably going to forego that Burger and Chips with a Moretti for a quick coffee and then eat at home with the family. Who loses then? A quid for a coffee or a tenner for some scran and a drink.. Clubs should be all over this, but they're not because some of the main culprits are almost untouchable..

That’s it in a nutshell clubs know who they are but don’t address it.

 

[Curls]

Whilst this without doubt the main pace of play issue for many, and the only practical solution is tee management, I'm afraid you underestimate the practical time impact for the first group letting you through in a 4 × 4 ball group where each group is playing at the same speed.
It's about 5 minutes (depends on the nature of the hole and where/how they play you through) to get you in position ahead of them....but when the group in front repeat the process they will be delayed another 5 minutes, then again, then again.
In an elastic situation these delays shouldn't stick, but such groups are rarely elastic!

I'm not in any way suggesting that group's shouldn't be played through in such situations, but as soon as you move from the simple '4 ball with space in front let's through faster group' it gets very disruptive very quickly.

I get what you're saying, though that's assuming each 4 is perfectly keeping pace with the 4 in front (as in every time they reach a tee the fairway has just cleared). Again, this doesn't happen. It can be one group reaching the tee whilst the other just leave the green. They will contend they haven't technically lost a hole so play on. A 2 ball would eat up that ground and by the time they'd played through the second group the group behind would only be catching up. Same thing with a lost ball, and there have been plenty such situations where we haven't been left through whilst a lost ball is searched for because "they haven't lost a hole on the group in front". That rule allows people to "legally" disband with common courtesy imo, as in their conscience is clear because were this brought up in the clubhouse after they could sing they were within their rights. And they do.

These are specific examples and I accept that won't always be the case, but it happens. The rest of the course could be completely empty and it will stay that way in front of that first group. Everyone in the field will be sentenced to play at whatever pace that group plays.

 

[6535]

Nope, you are both still not understanding what I am saying. I'll try once more.
If the entire field is slow on a given day, our fourball are perfectly in time with everyone else, I see no reason to pressurise the group in front if there is nowhere for them to go. Getting annoyed and annoying others isn't the way to do it, the committee have to address it but some days lost balls etc can lead to slower play. I don't like it neither but it happens.
Again, for the record I don't and won't condone slow play but I also won't stand shaking my arms at the group in front who are not necessarily to blame. Life is too short.

Your wasting your time, unless you race round in 2:20 like pedestal boy here he’ll argue the toss all the time.

But I’ve got the same view as yourself. You can only control yourself and your group.

I’m done with these preaching threads on pace of play.

 

[Papas1982]

Played with my society today. 3 groups. Tees from 948. Last group finished at 1410.

I genuinely felt like I was pulling my 3 ball along, but if had taken 5 hours I still would have had a good crack.

I fully accept that golf shouldn't take that long generally, but imo if you head to the course set on playing sub 4 hours during a busy period then you're setting yourself upor frustration.

Just as a little comparison. Motorway speed limits are 70mpn. I'd hazard a guess that maybe 65% drive at that speed. 10% drive slower and 25% want to speed. Which group. Is it when on the road are stressed out and abusing people? Just because you can go faster, doesn't mean you have a right do moan at those that can't.

 

[Curls]

Played with my society today. 3 groups. Tees from 948. Last group finished at 1410.

I genuinely felt like I was pulling my 3 ball along, but if had taken 5 hours I still would have had a good crack.

I fully accept that golf shouldn't take that long generally, but imo if you head to the course set on playing sub 4 hours during a busy period then you're setting yourself upor frustration.

Just as a little comparison. Motorway speed limits are 70mpn. I'd hazard a guess that maybe 65% drive at that speed. 10% drive slower and 25% want to speed. Which group. Is it when on the road are stressed out and abusing people? Just because you can go faster, doesn't mean you have a right do moan at those that can't.

As I’ve already said above, I wouldn’t expect a quick round of a weekend morning. But to use your analogy it’s 9pm on the M1 and there are three cars in a row across all three lanes doing 50 because they all want to arrive at the hotel together. And it’s everyone behind them is at fault for wanting to get on.

Maybe we need lanes on a golf course

Have to agree with some of the above sentiments that it’s pointless arguing about this on a forum. Where it matters is on the course and my hope is that if enough people really thought about the actual impact of allowing fast groups through when the course is otherwise quiet they would do it more often. But they don’t. They “keep up” with the group ahead and “there’s nowhere to go mate” on the 5th hole when there blatantly is. Is it ruining/detrimental to the viability of golf? I don’t know, maybe that’s a bit strong. But for some it isn’t helping.

 

[clubchamp98]

Played with my society today. 3 groups. Tees from 948. Last group finished at 1410.

I genuinely felt like I was pulling my 3 ball along, but if had taken 5 hours I still would have had a good crack.

I fully accept that golf shouldn't take that long generally, but imo if you head to the course set on playing sub 4 hours during a busy period then you're setting yourself upor frustration.

Just as a little comparison. Motorway speed limits are 70mpn. I'd hazard a guess that maybe 65% drive at that speed. 10% drive slower and 25% want to speed. Which group. Is it when on the road are stressed out and abusing people? Just because you can go faster, doesn't mean you have a right do moan at those that can't.

I would counter that by saying the ones who go slow cause more trouble.imo
People changing lanes to get past them.
If others want to speed just let them.

 

[Papas1982]

I would counter that by saying the ones who go slow cause more trouble.imo
People changing lanes to get past them.
If others want to speed just let them.

So you’re on the side of those wishing to break a law?

I’m nit saying people should be allowed to do 50 on the motorway. But if people are in all 3 lanes doing 70 then it’s tough on everyone else.

As I’ve already said above, I wouldn’t expect a quick round of a weekend morning. But to use your analogy it’s 9pm on the M1 and there are three cars in a row across all three lanes doing 50 because they all want to arrive at the hotel together. And it’s everyone behind them is at fault for wanting to get on.

Maybe we need lanes on a golf course

Have to agree with some of the above sentiments that it’s pointless arguing about this on a forum. Where it matters is on the course and my hope is that if enough people really thought about the actual impact of allowing fast groups through when the course is otherwise quiet they would do it more often. But they don’t. They “keep up” with the group ahead and “there’s nowhere to go mate” on the 5th hole when there blatantly is. Is it ruining/detrimental to the viability of golf? I don’t know, maybe that’s a bit strong. But for some it isn’t helping.

I don’t think your analogy is comparable, your auto automatically assigning blame on the slow drives/golfers and presuming they’d be selfish and take up all three lanes.

Agree though that unfortunately a compromise is unlikely to be found.

 

[clubchamp98]

So you’re on the side of those wishing to break a law?

I’m nit saying people should be allowed to do 50 on the motorway. But if people are in all 3 lanes doing 70 then it’s tough on everyone else.



I don’t think your analogy is comparable, your auto automatically assigning blame on the slow drives/golfers and presuming they’d be selfish and take up all three lanes.

Agree though that unfortunately a compromise is unlikely to be found.

Show me where i said I was on their side.
Your not supposed to be in those outside lanes unless your overtaking though.
If somebody wants to break the law that’s up to them.

 

[Papas1982]

Show me where i said I was on their side.
Your not supposed to be in those outside lanes unless your overtaking though.
If somebody wants to break the law that’s up to them.

Well you're saying that people should be allowed to speed. They shouldn't, hence it being illegal.

This has all gone off piste though. My original point was that it was the mentality of those wishing to speed that anyone not dou g so was in the wrong which isn't always the case.

 

[Jacko_G]

Well you're saying that people should be allowed to speed. They shouldn't, hence it being illegal.

This has all gone off piste though. My original point was that it was the mentality of those wishing to speed that anyone not dou g so was in the wrong which isn't always the case.

A thread on this place going off piste!!!

NEVER!

😂

 

[clubchamp98]

Well you're saying that people should be allowed to speed. They shouldn't, hence it being illegal.

This has all gone off piste though. My original point was that it was the mentality of those wishing to speed that anyone not dou g so was in the wrong which isn't always the case.

Show me where I said they should be allowed to speed.
Your making things up.

 

[Papas1982]

Show me where I said they should be allowed to speed.
Your making things up.

If others want to speed, let them. Your exact words.

Anyways I'm out. This is totally irrelevant to the op

 

[User20204]

Hurtling back on topic, we were 3.40 for our 3 ball this morning on a busy course, will be slower come the main season though. Another point that may well be missed, fast greens slow up play, did you know that ?