15 clubs in your opponents bag, what to do?

Allanxyz said:
I think you can only agree to waive if everyone knows there was a breach of the rules.... I get the impression in this case that nobody was clear of the the rule or at least didn't say "it's against the rules, but we'll let it slide" so for me... No DQ.
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I'm afraid that's wrong - if you know a rule has been broken then a penalty must be applied
 
hovis said:
Is only a dq if you use the declared clubs
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Nope what Spuddy is pointing out is that the FC acceptance of you declaring them out of play prior to the round is a breech of 1-3 because it is effectively an agreement to waive rule 4-4a. This would be DQ.

It has been (or should have been) made clear that your application of 4-4c is misguided and incorrect. It only applies when the breech has been discovered after a round has started.
 
Spuddy said:
hovis, rule 1-3.

[h=2][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]1-3 Agreement to Waive Rules[/FONT][/h][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Players must not agree to exclude the operation of any Rule or to waive any penalty incurred.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 1-3:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Match play – Disqualification of both sides;
Stroke play – Disqualification of competitors concerned.[/FONT]
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But if a fc didnt understand the rules surely he cant be DQ'd
 
hovis said:
If i found out when emptying my bag that there was a small putter in there that i didnt know about then yes, i would take the win with a clear conscience too

Im amazed that you wouldnt pay out for losing.
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How the heck can you have a club in your bag that "you didn't know about"

And I wouldn't pay out to someone who hadn't applied the relevant penalty to himself when breaking a rule.

Sorry I know it's quite hard to comprehend for you but I play by the rules set out by our governing body - I dont pick and chose which rules to follow depending on the "harm" they are
 
Liverpoolphil said:
How the heck can you have a club in your bag that "you didn't know about"
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Took my lad to the putting green one time and stuck his putter in my putter well and forgot about it. Carried it around the next time I played and didn't realise until I was on the 4th. Was playing alone so didn't matter. I didn't penalise myself either :D
 
virtuocity said:
Took my lad to the putting green one time and stuck his putter in my putter well and forgot about it. Carried it around the next time I played and didn't realise until I was on the 4th. Was playing alone so didn't matter. I didn't penalise myself either :D
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How big was it :D

Did you manage to get yours in as well :D
 
Liverpoolphil said:
How the heck can you have a club in your bag that "you didn't know about"

And I wouldn't pay out to someone who hadn't applied the relevant penalty to himself when breaking a rule.

Sorry I know it's quite hard to comprehend for you but I play by the rules set out by our governing body - I dont pick and chose which rules to follow depending on the "harm" they are
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I used the e,g above as my friend left his little lads putter in his side pocket and thought it would be a good example. I know you play the rules phil. Thats quite clear. But having done something that bears no advantage to me in the field makes my conscience clear. If i had a friend that pulled me for having a spare club i didnt use and refused to pay out would no longer be playing golf with me. And i think i can saflely say the majority of this forum would agree
 
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Spuddy said:
hovis, rule 1-3.

1-3 Agreement to Waive Rules

Players must not agree to exclude the operation of any Rule or to waive any penalty incurred.

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 1-3:
Match play – Disqualification of both sides;
Stroke play – Disqualification of competitors concerned.
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makes sense, I wasn't there, but from the way Hovis tells it, there was no agreement to exclude or waive a rule. Nobody said, "we'll let it slide, we know the rule but will choose to ignore it"
 
hovis said:
I used the e,g above as my friend left his little lads putter in his side pocket and thought it would be a good example. I know you play the rules phil. Thats quite clear. But having done something that bears no advantage to me in the field makes my conscience clear. If i had a friend that pulled me for having a spare club i didnt use and refused to pay out would no longer be playing golf with me. And i think i can saflely say the majority of this forum would agree
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I can safely say the majority of this forum wouldn't take out more than 14 clubs because they know one of the most basic rules in golf - so the situation wouldn't arise for the majority of the forum.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
I can safely say the majority of this forum wouldn't take out more than 14 clubs because they know one of the most basic rules in golf - so the situation wouldn't arise for the majority of the forum.
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Well i thought so too but a pro golf coach told me about the extra club rule and was clearly mistaken.
With that in mind i still refuse to believe any normal person wouldnt pay out in the said circumstances. Scream "sore looser" to me
 
I'm fascinated by why you should use clubs on the range that you don't use on the course.
Are they alignment aids?
Are the mats on the range damaging, so you want to protect your good clubs?
 
hovis said:
Well i thought so too but a pro golf coach told me about the extra club rule and was clearly mistaken.
With that in mind i still refuse to believe any normal person wouldnt pay out in the said circumstances. Scream "sore looser" to me
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Why didn't you check the rule yourself ?

A rule is a rule - it's not up to you to decide which ones to follow

I would expect that when someone has broken a rule they apply the relevant penalty - that how golf is - we self govern the game and ensure the rules are followed. If you are willing to ignore this one - what else will you ignore because you believe it to be "no harm"

Even now you don't seem bothered - sorry but that doesn't sit right with me.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
I can safely say the majority of this forum wouldn't take out more than 14 clubs because they know one of the most basic rules in golf - so the situation wouldn't arise for the majority of the forum.
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I would also bet that a lot of club players, unaware of the exact wording of the rules, wouldn't consider it to be a breech for someone with more than 14 clubs to declare them out of play and not use them during the round.
 
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North Mimms said:
I'm fascinated by why you should use clubs on the range that you don't use on the course.
Are they alignment aids?
Are the mats on the range damaging, so you want to protect your good clubs?
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I have quite a steep swing and have broken a few shafts in my time and i practice alot and dont want to add wear to my i20's. But mostly my shafts are unique and almost impossible to replace. Would hate to snap one of them
 
palindromicbob said:
I would also bet that a lot of club players, unaware of the exact wording of the rules, wouldn't consider it to be a breech for someone with more than 14 clubs to declare them out of play and not use them during the round.
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I would suggest most would find out the exact wording when the offence took place to ensure they were ok - as opposed to blindly agreeing
 
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