15 clubs in your opponents bag, what to do?

[EarCat]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Today, my playing partner told me about his experiences in a lower handicap match play event against other clubs, namely how competitive some players in the teams get. He told me of how last summer, he played an away game in which, on the third green, the player from my club discovered he had 15 clubs in his bag as he had taken 2 putters with him as he had never played the course before and didn't know how fast the greens were and had forgotten to take one out. Now if that had happened to me, I would think "that's any honest mistake, he has gained no advantage as he had only used one of the putters, just leave it in your bag and play on". Instead, the guy from the other team said to the player from my home course "Well, that's me 3 up then". I can't be the only one who thinks that golf is a gents game and should be played accordingly, I'd rather win with a putter in my hand than a rule book. [/FONT]

 

[richart]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Today, my playing partner told me about his experiences in a lower handicap match play event against other clubs, namely how competitive some players in the teams get. He told me of how last summer, he played an away game in which, on the third green, the player from my club discovered he had 15 clubs in his bag as he had taken 2 putters with him as he had never played the course before and didn't know how fast the greens were and had forgotten to take one out. Now if that had happened to me, I would think "that's any honest mistake, he has gained no advantage as he had only used one of the putters, just leave it in your bag and play on". Instead, the guy from the other team said to the player from my home course "Well, that's me 3 up then". I can't be the only one who thinks that golf is a gents game and should be played accordingly, I'd rather win with a putter in my hand than a rule book. [/FONT]

Which rules do you intend to play by, and which ones are you going to ignore ?

 

[the_coach]

A player's responsibility is to play entirely honestly both in the spirit of the game but importantly uphold all the rules of golf as they stand (even if some may need looking at again, as a moving ball on the green was recently, but it's up to those who are put in the governance position to do this and not an individual golfer).

The golfer who sadly made the mistake, having declared what happened when they realized should have said under the rules of golf he's forfeits the holes concerned and take the onus away from his competitor having to do anything at all. (didn't the Irish golfer McGinley do this in a stroke play event and had to take the penalty shots for the hole/s played up until the discovery, despite this being the caddies job to check the bag before start), the 15th club has to be removed from the bag immediately and the game continues with him 3 down.(edit:forgot about the 2 hole maximum: probably another rule that needs revisiting by the governing bodies )
Unfortunate but that's the only outcome.

 

[didsbury_duffer]

Richart is correct.....rules are rules. The player was right to claim the holes.

 

[SGC001]

Why 3?

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-04/

 

[EarCat]

Which rules do you intend to play by, and which ones are you going to ignore ?

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I realise that victory is not the be all and end all in sport, I would rather lose fairly than win by taking advantage of someone's innocent mistake.

 

[garyinderry]

what do you do with the spare putter in this situation? do you leave it in the nearest bush/bin or can you just leave it in your bag but declared as "not in use"?

 

[Bratty]

Which rules do you intend to play by, and which ones are you going to ignore ?

Guessing he's starting with the 14 club rule, Richart

3 up seems perfectly fair to me.

 

[richart]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I realise that victory is not the be all and end all in sport, I would rather lose fairly than win by taking advantage of someone's innocent mistake.

If you ignored the rule, couldn't you both be dq'd.

 

[spawn_ukuk]

There are alot of rules in golf as we all know, But we also know there are some big rules the rules that stand out.
Having too many clubs in the bag is one of those rules is just too big so yeh its right to punish them for that rule.

 

[Bratty]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I realise that victory is not the be all and end all in sport, I would rather lose fairly than win by taking advantage of someone's innocent mistake.

But the rule clearly states 14 clubs, so innocent mistake or not, that's the rule. It's not taking advantage, it's adhering to the laws of the game.

 

[EarCat]

But the rule clearly states 14 clubs, so innocent mistake or not, that's the rule. It's not taking advantage, it's adhering to the laws of the game.

Firstly, I don't understand why there is a limit on how many clubs you can have, you can only hit one at a time, can't you? Secondly, take the argument of taking advantage of another's innocent mistake being morally wrong into life in general, if you were walking behind someone and they dropped their wallet without noticing, would you give it back to them or lift it and put it in your pocket? I, for one, couldn't look myself in the face if I took advantage.

 

[palindromicbob]

Richart is correct.....rules are rules. The player was right to claim the holes.

Why 3?

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-04/

Good point. Max penalty is 2 holes and the penalty isn't loss of hole it's adjustment of the score in match play.

So if player A who had 15 clubs was 2UP standing on the 3rd green and also went on to win the 3rd hole the match stands as 1UP to player A not 3UP or even 2UP to player B.

At the same time if player B was 2UP and won the 3rd hole he would now be 5UP after 3 holes played.

what do you do with the spare putter in this situation? do you leave it in the nearest bush/bin or can you just leave it in your bag but declared as "not in use"?

Declare it out of play to your opponent and carry it with you. DQ if you then go on to use it after the declaration.

 

[the_coach]

If you ignored the rule, couldn't you both be dq'd.

Be interesting to find out, by a rules official, would have to pore through the rule book to be sure. But it could be that the player carrying the extra club would forfeit 2 holes and the player who through sentiment didn't attend to the letter of the law might find himself DQ'd, unsure if both would be would guess that would be probable, not something I've ever had experience of.

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I realise that victory is not the be all and end all in sport, I would rather lose fairly than win by taking advantage of someone's innocent mistake.

Understand the sentiment, but you wouldn't be taking advantage of someone's mistake but rather abiding by the rules of golf, something you have to do having teed the ball up in competition governed by those rules.

 

[palindromicbob]

Be interesting to find out, by a rules official, would have to pore through the rule book to be sure. But it could be that the player carrying the extra club would forfeit 2 holes and the player who through sentiment didn't attend to the letter of the law might find himself DQ'd, unsure if both would be would guess that would be probable, not something I've ever had experience of.

Not very far into the book.

Rule 1-3 Agreement to waive the rules (which is what choosing to ignore would be)

Players must not agree to exclude the operation of any Rule or to waive any penalty incurred.

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 1-3:
Match play – Disqualification of both sides;
Stroke play – Disqualification of competitors concerned.

 

[EarCat]

Not very far into the book.

Rule 1-3 Agreement to waive the rules (which is what choosing to ignore would be)

Players must not agree to exclude the operation of any Rule or to waive any penalty incurred.

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 1-3:
Match play – Disqualification of both sides;
Stroke play – Disqualification of competitors concerned.

fair enough then, I would just concede the number of holes until it is A/S again, I refuse to leave the golf course feeling like a cheat.

 

[garyinderry]

Declare it out of play to your opponent and carry it with you. DQ if you then go on to use it after the declaration.

grand. this is easily something that could happen to me!

 

[the_coach]

Once it's discovered, Penalty must be applied.

We are all already sure of this, just the OP mixing sentiment with the rules.

 

[Foxholer]

We are all already sure of this, just the OP mixing sentiment with the rules.

There was another bit to that post, but I deleted entire post when I saw how many others had said the same things that I was saying.

 

[North Mimms]

I pulled out a 7 iron to play to the 8th green during a match, and realised it wasn't mine... I'd picked up someone's left behind club the day before and forgotten to hand it in.
Thankfully I normally only carry 13 clubs so no penalty!