15 clubs in your opponents bag, what to do?

[Deleted member 15344]

Sounds like you didn't follow the rules though... If the results were published you aren't allowed to DQ yourself...or maybe changing a penalty isn't allowed but a DQ is??

I didn't feel right winning a comp when I clearly didn't.

 

[hovis]

Any other rules that should be just ignored because there is "No Harm"

The harm is a rule has been broken - if you're not bothered about this rule then where does it stop ?

Sorry but you only have to see Woosies reaction to see the harm it can do

You are only allowed 14 clubs in your bag at the start of a round - it's a simple basic rule that must be adhered to.

So if you feel so strong about it then why pay out if you lost to a fc with 16 clubs. You cant have it both ways

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Never said he cheated - but integrity comes into question for me hence why I would speak to the comp sec

Bit rich, calling the integrity of a golfer you've never met into question.

 

[hovis]

I didn't feel right winning a comp when I clearly didn't.

What would yoy do if when putting you bag in your car you noticed an old putter in the side pocket of your bag?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Bit rich, calling the integrity of a golfer you've never met into question.

Noticed you didn't answer my previous post Homer

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So if you feel so strong about it then why pay out if you lost to a fc with 16 clubs. You cant have it both ways

I wouldn't pay out - hence why I said I wouldn't give him the £20

 

[Deleted member 15344]

What would yoy do if when putting you bag in your car you noticed an old putter in the side pocket of your bag?

It wouldn't happen because I know the rule and only ever have 14 clubs - don't have any old putter etc

 

[hovis]

Bit rich, calling the integrity of a golfer you've never met into question.

If having no integrity means letting it slide when a fc clearly has a club in his bag that he's not using and has even declared it before we teed off then i'd rather fly the flag of having no integrity than having people no longer wanting to play with me becasuse im a stick in the mud

 

[hovis]

It wouldn't happen because I know the rule and only ever have 14 clubs - don't have any old putter etc

Sorry i thought you said you would pay out (my mistake). As for my question, humor me! Lets say it happened

 

[Allanxyz]

I didn't feel right winning a comp when I clearly didn't.

in my opinion that's fair enough...but as far as I can tell you broke the rules of golf by DQ'ing yourself... Again you can't have it both ways... If you stick to the rules then Hovis shouldn't be looking to take back any qualifiers or wins he might have had. I'm also guessing his conscience is quiet clear as he didn't intentionally break the rule and didn't use the club so had no benefit.

 

[Spuddy]

Hovis, if you've declared your extra clubs to your FC and you do nothing then you're both liable to get DQ'ed. This came up in another thread where we were discussing the waiving of rules.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

in my opinion that's fair enough...but as far as I can tell you broke the rules of golf by DQ'ing yourself... Again you can't have it both ways... If you stick to the rules then Hovis shouldn't be looking to take back any qualifiers or wins he might have had. I'm also guessing his conscience is quiet clear as he didn't intentionally break the rule and didn't use the club so had no benefit.

Oh Im sure his conscience is clear - as he suggests - it's a rule break but "no harm"

I have no idea on comp rules etc - this 4 years ago and the result wasn't on the PC.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Sorry i thought you said you would pay out (my mistake). As for my question, humor me! Lets say it happened

It wouldn't but if I broke a rule then I would apply the relevant penalty on myself

Would you not say anything a take the win ?

 

[hovis]

Hovis, if you've declared your extra clubs to your FC and you do nothing then you're both liable to get DQ'ed. This came up in another thread where we were discussing the waiving of rules.

Is only a dq if you use the declared clubs

 

[palindromicbob]

Never said he cheated - but integrity comes into question for me hence why I would speak to the comp sec

He could have possibly won comps and money from other people when clearly breaking the rules.

Golf is a game of self regulation and trust

I didn't realise that one day I miss counted a score on a medal as did my FC - two days later I realised and spoke to the comp sec and even though I won I DQ'ed myself. I felt it was the right thing to do. The game is built on the rules being self governed.

My initial statement about DQ was said in jest but speaking to the comp sec if taken 16 clubs in a qualifying comp is IMO the right thing to do

Admirable as the self DQ was your breech had gained you an advantage over the field. Hovis's breech didn't.

Look beyond the rules and consider the intention of Hovis.

The rules themselves consider intention when considering penalty by usually having a 1 stroke penalty for a accidental act which may gain advantage and a 2 stroke for deliberate or preventable action which may gain an advantage.

Hovis was obviously aware that he could not play more than 14 clubs hence he declared excess out of play and didn't use them. What he appears to have been unaware of is the exact wording in that you can not start a round with more than 14.

I am not standing up for the tone taken in some of this interchange I'm just playing devils advocate and trying to highlight that it isn't necessarily as black and white as it may appear to you.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Is only a dq if you use the declared clubs

Actually if you break the rule and "not" apply the relevant penalty then you should be DQ'ed

 

[Allanxyz]

Hovis, if you've declared your extra clubs to your FC and you do nothing then you're both liable to get DQ'ed. This came up in another thread where we were discussing the waiving of rules.

I think you can only agree to waive if everyone knows there was a breach of the rules.... I get the impression in this case that nobody was clear of the the rule or at least didn't say "it's against the rules, but we'll let it slide" so for me... No DQ.

 

[hovis]

It wouldn't but if I broke a rule then I would apply the relevant penalty on myself

Would you not say anything a take the win ?

If i found out when emptying my bag that there was a small putter in there that i didnt know about then yes, i would take the win with a clear conscience too

Im amazed that you wouldnt pay out for losing.

 

[Spuddy]

hovis, rule 1-3.

[h=2][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]1-3 Agreement to Waive Rules[/FONT][/h][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Players must not agree to exclude the operation of any Rule or to waive any penalty incurred.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 1-3:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Match play – Disqualification of both sides;
Stroke play – Disqualification of competitors concerned.[/FONT]

 

[Allanxyz]

Oh Im sure his conscience is clear - as he suggests - it's a rule break but "no harm"

I have no idea on comp rules etc - this 4 years ago and the result wasn't on the PC.

fair enough... If the results weren't published then there was no breach of the rules on your part in regards to DQ'ing yourself. Hovis though can't DQ himself now though unless it can be established that his FC and him agreed to waive the rule... Doesn't seem to be the case to me.