15 clubs in your opponents bag, what to do?

[chrisd]

No confusion there!

My take is that if a Player notices a breach, then he needn't apply it. But if both players know there is a breach, then not applying it means DQ.

So happily ignore opponent moving Loose Impediments in hazards or repairing spike marks on green, but where both know, then both DQ-ed. It's ok to point out breach on previous hole after teeing off on the next.

And another point. If YOU discover there are 15+ clubs in the opponents bag, then you can ignore it. Though if you discover it on the first hole there's something of a moral dilemna!

Agreed!

 

[londonlewis]

Call me naive if you wish, but I believe that it is unsporting to enforce this rule in this scenario. I feel that a bit of compassion is required here, imagine you were in the boy with 15 clubs in his bags boots, how bad you would feel if your mistake cost your team the win. After all, this isn't life or death here, it is a game of golf we are talking about.

Golf is never a game of life or death so does that mean you should look the other way when other rules are broken?

Example; your playing partner is in a 6 foot deep bunker and is up against the front wall. There is seemlingly no chance of them getting on to the green, let alone near the flag. They manage to hit a phenomenal bunker shot which finishes inches from the cup, BUT they accidentally hit the ball twice as the club head moved past the ball through the sand.

They didn't mean to do it. did the second brushing of the ball reflect the path of the ball so much that it actually made a difference to where the shot finished?

Also - if I was playing against someone who had 15 clubs in their bag and I let them get away with it and therefore got disqualified, how bad would I feel if my mistake cost my team the win?

And does Tiger's drop at the Masters fit in to this category for you? How much of an advantage did he really get by dropping his ball 3 feet away from his original position? Probably not a lot, if any (although I am sure some would argue there was an advantage). But did he break a rule? and was he penalised for it? Yes to both

 

[evahakool]

I play in a family run society every year,a few years ago my brother and I were just about to tee of on the 12th hole when I noticed he had 15 clubs in his bag,we were both in contention of winning.Told him the rule and he never had any idea of this rule,worring thing was he had been playing in another society all season with 15 clubs.

As it was a family society I let it go,but if it happened in a proper competition I would certainly have made sure the proper penalty was applied.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

You have to invoke the penalty. End of. Golf at our level isn't win at all costs, or at least shouldn't be and its not life and death. However as others have eloquently pointed out it is arguably the one game where rulings aren't discretionary (ref/umpires decision is arbitrary and based on opinion). If I was on the receiving end, while I wouldn't be happy it would just motivate me. If I lost then my mistake my comeuppance.

 

[Green Bay Hacker]

Once discovered the player has to declare the extra club out of use for the rest of the round to his opponent or marker. Effective penalty is loss of two holes in matchplay, or 4 strokes in stroke play (2 at each of the first two holes). If he uses the club again during the round it's a DQ.

By the way, Ian Woosnam once threw a very nice new driver into the bushes when he found he had too many clubs in his bag during the last round of an Open Championship when he was well in contention, until the 4 stroke penalty was added. He had being trying out a couple of drivers on the range and his caddie had forgotten to remove the unwanted one from his bag. I believe that the caddie was sacked shortly afterwards!

Thanks for reminding me. As soon as I had put the phone down following a rash decision to speak to William Hill to pledge some of my hard earned on Woosie's abilities - there it was, a 2 shot penalty and my dough was done before another stoke was made.

 

[TheClaw]

Thanks for reminding me. As soon as I had put the phone down following a rash decision to speak to William Hill to pledge some of my hard earned on Woosie's abilities - there it was, a 2 shot penalty and my dough was done before another stoke was made.

I think William Hill should have paid out. After all, it wasn't your fault that Woosie had 15 clubs

 

[Green Bay Hacker]

I think William Hill should have paid out. After all, it wasn't your fault that Woosie had 15 clubs

You don't work for Paddy Power do you? That's the sort of thing that they do.

Thanks for the sympathy anyway.

 

[Allanxyz]

Slightly off topic... so if I have 15 clubs and I'm three holes in and notice I get a 4 shot penalty, maximum of 2 holes. Can I then continue on with 15 clubs to the end of the round, or do I have to declare one "not in play" straight away?

If I notice at the end of the round, I would get the same penalty but would have possibly used all 15 clubs in my round (ok no way a 4 shot advantage) but if you are going to check how many clubs in your bag then obviously do it before the round, but if not, don't start checking after the second hole! Or have I got it wrong?

I guess if you notice after the result is called (i.e. next time you go to play golf) then the result stands...or?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Which rules do you intend to play by, and which ones are you going to ignore ?

Correct - you are not allowed to ignore the rules - regardless

 

[Foxholer]

Slightly off topic... so if I have 15 clubs and I'm three holes in and notice I get a 4 shot penalty, maximum of 2 holes. Can I then continue on with 15 clubs to the end of the round, or do I have to declare one "not in play" straight away?

If I notice at the end of the round, I would get the same penalty but would have possibly used all 15 clubs in my round (ok no way a 4 shot advantage) but if you are going to check how many clubs in your bag then obviously do it before the round, but if not, don't start checking after the second hole! Or have I got it wrong?

I guess if you notice after the result is called (i.e. next time you go to play golf) then the result stands...or?

Nope. Sufficient clubs must be declared 'out of play' so that only 14 are available for use. Subsequent use of one declared out of play results in DQ.

And you are correct about the result standing. Important to get result posted in a timely fashion too. Apparently 2 early finishing competitors (locals) were something like 8 pints into post match conviviality when it was discovered - and the result hadn't been posted! They staggered out to somewhere like the 16th hole to resume!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You don't apply a penalty, he does. But he must. The questions of whether it is a honest mistake and/or an advantage gained or not are irrelevant. Penalties may apply from entirely unintentional actions, such as a rebounding ball hitting your body or golf bag. Pure fluke and chance event, but a penalty.

If you agree to waive it, you are both DQ'd.

Which really should be the last word on the matter.

 

[Airlie_Andy]

Nope. Sufficient clubs must be declared 'out of play' so that only 14 are available for use. Subsequent use of one declared out of play results in DQ.

And you are correct about the result standing. Important to get result posted in a timely fashion too. Apparently 2 early finishing competitors (locals) were something like 8 pints into post match conviviality when it was discovered - and the result hadn't been posted! They staggered out to somewhere like the 16th hole to resume!

I think what the poster is suggesting is that someone who counts his clubs on the 3rd tee and discovers he has 15 clubs must declare one of those clubs out of play. However if you count your clubs on the 18th green you get exactly the same penalty with the added benefit of having had 15 clubs available to you for the full round.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

This would never happen to me, I only own 14 clubs

 

[Foxholer]

I think what the poster is suggesting is that someone who counts his clubs on the 3rd tee and discovers he has 15 clubs must declare one of those clubs out of play. However if you count your clubs on the 18th green you get exactly the same penalty with the added benefit of having had 15 clubs available to you for the full round.

Indeed!

I got so engrossed in relating that story that I forgot to make that comment.

Count them before the round! Or don't bother counting them at all - at least not after the 2nd tee!

Morals notwithstanding of course!

 

[hovis]

I often have 15/16 clubs in my bag. As long as you declare the extra clubs to your fc and dont use them its all ok

 

[Spuddy]

I often have 15/16 clubs in my bag. As long as you declare the extra clubs to your fc and dont use them its all ok

If you are carrying the clubs then you're in breach of the rule

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

you

I often have 15/16 clubs in my bag. As long as you declare the extra clubs to your fc and dont use them its all ok

So you declare at the outset the clubs you are not going to use and that's OK? If this were OK then just on basic practicalities how does anyone police you on that? Also say you carry two putters and that makes 15 clubs, and you declare you are not going to use one of them and identify the one you are not going to use, ,and half way round your putter breaks. I think you will be expecting to be able to use your substitute putter! After all it's only a game isn't it?

 

[Allanxyz]

Indeed!

I got so engrossed in relating that story that I forgot to make that comment.

Count them before the round! Or don't bother counting them at all - at least not after the 2nd tee!

Morals notwithstanding of course!

Thanks... on the morals front it's a little suspect of course...

I've got to say I would never look in an opponents bag and start counting... I guess most people know as soon as they take a grab at that spare lob wedge in the bag that they've made a bit of mistake and not taken it out... I wonder how many people just keep quiet..

 

[Picto]

Lets all be honest, how we would have dealt with the OP's situation, would have depended on how good looking your FC's wife is

 

[hovis]

you

So you declare at the outset the clubs you are not going to use and that's OK? If this were OK then just on basic practicalities how does anyone police you on that? Also say you carry two putters and that makes 15 clubs, and you declare you are not going to use one of them and identify the one you are not going to use, ,and half way round your putter breaks. I think you will be expecting to be able to use your substitute putter! After all it's only a game isn't it?

It is difficult to police but still doesn't change the fact that you can declare additional clubs