G
guest100718
Guest
But it isn't.
15 clubs in your opponents bag, what to do?
- Thread starter EarCat
- Start date
But it isn't.
chrisd
Major Champion
you can quote any rule, passage or definition you like Paddy but on Sunday in a competition I am refereeing myself and my 2 playing partners for the rest of the field and I really don't care that you want to be so pedantic as to not accept the wider definition of "refereeing". If I am not doing so, why would I call them on infringements of rules and/or sign, or refuse to sign, their card?
londonlewis
Tour Rookie
If I was playing against you I would have done the same thing.
It is a gentleman's game and it would be very unfair of being accused of not being a gentleman because you invoked the correct use of the rules.
It is a gentleman's game and it would be very unfair of being accused of not being a gentleman because you invoked the correct use of the rules.
EarCat
Assistant Pro
Call me naive if you wish, but I believe that it is unsporting to enforce this rule in this scenario. I feel that a bit of compassion is required here, imagine you were in the boy with 15 clubs in his bags boots, how bad you would feel if your mistake cost your team the win. After all, this isn't life or death here, it is a game of golf we are talking about.
mcbroon
Journeyman Pro
I'd feel like an idiot. I wouldn't feel hard done by - I'd understand that I broke the rules and that I incurred a penalty under those rules. There is no wriggle room, it's not a matter of compassion.
Everybody knows the 14 club limit and everyone knows there's a penalty if you breach it. Nobody should feel aggrieved about being penalised if they do breach it.
Airlie_Andy
Challenge Tour Pro
As it was Matchplay I would say don't worry about it and continue the game, although I'm now not sure if this would see us both DQ? Obviously in any other comp I would have to call the penalty to protect the field.
bladeplayer
Money List Winner
As its match play whats too stop you saying to the guy ,
"look i dont want to call you on this , but if anyone finds out we will both be DQ'd so lets not mention it and let the best golfer win "
just dont use both putters
.........
im not saying its right ok , but what's to stop you doing what you think is right when the only person that can be effected is you ?
"look i dont want to call you on this , but if anyone finds out we will both be DQ'd so lets not mention it and let the best golfer win "
just dont use both putters
.........im not saying its right ok , but what's to stop you doing what you think is right when the only person that can be effected is you ?
chrisd
Major Champion
As its match play whats too stop you saying to the guy ,
"look i dont want to call you on this , but if anyone finds out we will both be DQ'd so lets not mention it and let the best golfer win "
just dont use both putters
im not saying its right ok , but what's to stop you doing what you think is right when the only person that can be effected is you ?
There's no need to agree this. You have the right to overlook a breach of rules during a Matchplay game, the reason being that you are not affecting any other players chances.
Ethan
Money List Winner
Again, you do not have discretion to waive the rule. If you do, and he accepts, you are both DQ'd.
And your opponent should not accept it anyway..
A few holes later, you striped a drive long and straight up the middle. Then when your opponent was in the process of hitting his drive you accidentally released a sonorous, seismic even, fart, he flinched and hit his ball into the lake. In that scenario, you can't give him another go. It matters not whether it would be sporting or karmically wise to do so. You can't.
No difference between the two scenarios.
Ethan
Money List Winner
Not so. Show me where it says that in the ROG.
Rule 1-3. Agreement to waive rules - DQ of both players.
chrisd
Major Champion
I didn't say that they should agree, I said that he could overlook the matter, which he is entitled to do
Ethan
Money List Winner
Show me where that is allowed.
Oh, and if the other player fessed up as suggested in the first post, and he says 'don't worry about it, mate' and the player accepts, they have agreed.
Spuddy
Challenge Tour Pro
You can't agree between you to waive the rules but you can, in match play choose to disregard a rule. See note 1 to rule 2-5
chrisd
Major Champion
Note 1 rule 2 -5
chrisd
Major Champion
Sorry Spuddy, you must have posted while I was double checking rule number!
Ethan
Money List Winner
chrisd
Major Champion
I know we've pointed you in the right direction Ethan, but to answer this point
The player can ignore what had happened, his competitor then can declare the extra club as out of play and, so long as he doesn't use it, he isn't penalised for carrying it.
Spuddy
Challenge Tour Pro
[h=2][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]
1-3/4[/FONT][/h][h=4][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Failure of Players to Apply Known Penalty[/FONT][/h][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Q.In a match, a player discovers at the 2nd hole that he has 15 clubs in his bag contrary to Rule 4-4a, but his opponent refuses to apply the penalty. The extra club is declared out of play and the match continues. The Committee disqualifies both players. Is this correct?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]A.Yes. Since the players agreed to waive the penalty, they should be disqualified under Rule 1-3.
Now I'm confused![/FONT]
1-3/4[/FONT][/h][h=4][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Failure of Players to Apply Known Penalty[/FONT][/h][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Q.In a match, a player discovers at the 2nd hole that he has 15 clubs in his bag contrary to Rule 4-4a, but his opponent refuses to apply the penalty. The extra club is declared out of play and the match continues. The Committee disqualifies both players. Is this correct?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]A.Yes. Since the players agreed to waive the penalty, they should be disqualified under Rule 1-3.
Now I'm confused![/FONT]
Bratty
Princess Pouty (Queen of Fish Lips)
You may not understand it, but that's the rule. So you have to follow it. you can't choose which ones to ignore/breach if you don't like/understand them, surely?
As for taking advantage in the scenario you state, they are two entirely different things. I've picked up £20 notes in pubs and handed them back to people who had no idea they'd dropped them. I've contacted online merchants when they've sent duplicate items and I've not paid for them. There is no rule governing that behaviour, only my moral compass.
Morals and rules are two different things.
I'm not saying I'm perfect, god forbid, but I could sleep quite soundly having done what the opposition did in the OP. I may have said it differently, but the outcome would have been the same.
Foxholer
Blackballed
No confusion there!
My take is that if a Player notices a breach, then he needn't apply it. But if both players know there is a breach, then not applying it means DQ.
So happily ignore opponent moving Loose Impediments in hazards or repairing spike marks on green, but where both know, then both DQ-ed. It's ok to point out breach on previous hole after teeing off on the next.
And another point. If YOU discover there are 15+ clubs in the opponents bag, then you can ignore it. Though if you discover it on the first hole there's something of a moral dilemna!
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