15 clubs in your opponents bag, what to do?

[delc]

what do you do with the spare putter in this situation? do you leave it in the nearest bush/bin or can you just leave it in your bag but declared as "not in use"?

Once discovered the player has to declare the extra club out of use for the rest of the round to his opponent or marker. Effective penalty is loss of two holes in matchplay, or 4 strokes in stroke play (2 at each of the first two holes). If he uses the club again during the round it's a DQ.

By the way, Ian Woosnam once threw a very nice new driver into the bushes when he found he had too many clubs in his bag during the last round of an Open Championship when he was well in contention, until the 4 stroke penalty was added. He had being trying out a couple of drivers on the range and his caddie had forgotten to remove the unwanted one from his bag. I believe that the caddie was sacked shortly afterwards!

 

[delc]

Once discovered the player has to declare the extra club out of use for the rest of the round to his opponent or marker. Effective penalty is loss of two holes in matchplay, or 4 strokes in stroke play (2 at each of the first two holes). If he uses the club again during the round it's a DQ.

By the way, Ian Woosnam once threw a very nice new driver into the bushes when he found he had too many clubs in his bag during the last round of an Open Championship when he was well in contention, until the 4 stroke penalty was added. He had being trying out a couple of drivers on the range and his caddie had forgotten to remove the unwanted one from his bag. I believe that the caddie was sacked shortly afterwards!

Sorry, just checked and he only got a 2 shot penalty as he only played the 1st hole with the extra driver. The extra club was discovered before he teed off on the 2nd. (It's 2 shots per hole up to a maximum of two holes). See:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYV-csdgRv0

 

[Foxholer]

Once discovered the player has to declare the extra club out of use for the rest of the round to his opponent or marker. Effective penalty is loss of two holes in matchplay, or 4 strokes in stroke play (2 at each of the first two holes). If he uses the club again during the round it's a DQ.

There's a distinct similarity with what P..Bob posted an hour and a half earlier!:whoo:

Except P..Bob is correct and You are not. Maximum penalty is as you described, not effective - as in Woosnam's 2 shot at Lytham, where he was leading, not just 'in contention'!

Skim reading again!

 

[Foxholer]

fair enough then, I would just concede the number of holes until it is A/S again, I refuse to leave the golf course feeling like a cheat.

If you were playing me, I'd consider that very nice of you. But I certainly wouldn't do the same if the positions were reversed! My view is that it's impossible to cheat if you play by the Rules!

And I have 'fessed up to playing with 15 clubs in the bag - discovered on the 5th tee!

 

[delc]

There's a distinct similarity with what P..Bob posted an hour and a half earlier!:whoo:

Except P..Bob is correct and You are not. Maximum penalty is as you described, not effective - as in Woosnam's 2 shot at Lytham, where he was leading, not just 'in contention'!

Skim reading again!

He was only joint leader at the time with Niclas Fasth. David Duval was the eventual winner, with Fasth second and Woosnam trailing in 4 shots behind, 2 of them due to the penalty strokes. As I have already stated, it's 2 shots per hole up to a maximum of 2 holes, so a maximum of 4 penalty shots, or 2 holes lost in matchplay.

 

[pbrown7582]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Today, my playing partner told me about his experiences in a lower handicap match play event against other clubs, namely how competitive some players in the teams get. He told me of how last summer, he played an away game in which, on the third green, the player from my club discovered he had 15 clubs in his bag as he had taken 2 putters with him as he had never played the course before and didn't know how fast the greens were and had forgotten to take one out. Now if that had happened to me, I would think "that's any honest mistake, he has gained no advantage as he had only used one of the putters, just leave it in your bag and play on". Instead, the guy from the other team said to the player from my home course "Well, that's me 3 up then". I can't be the only one who thinks that golf is a gents game and should be played accordingly, I'd rather win with a putter in my hand than a rule book. [/FONT]

The rules are clear but what wouldn't be clear is whether it was an unintentional mistake or an attempt to cheat, in this case it is as you stated a mistake but at low h/cap level everything is very competitive and if you break the rules you suffer the consequences.

oh sorry I just knocked my ball out of the rough intentional but genuine accident???

 

[Wayman]

But the rule clearly states 14 clubs, so innocent mistake or not, that's the rule. It's not taking advantage, it's adhering to the laws of the game.

Agree with this

Can't just let them play on with no penalty

 

[chrisd]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Today, my playing partner told me about his experiences in a lower handicap match play event against other clubs, namely how competitive some players in the teams get. He told me of how last summer, he played an away game in which, on the third green, the player from my club discovered he had 15 clubs in his bag as he had taken 2 putters with him as he had never played the course before and didn't know how fast the greens were and had forgotten to take one out. Now if that had happened to me, I would think "that's any honest mistake, he has gained no advantage as he had only used one of the putters, just leave it in your bag and play on". Instead, the guy from the other team said to the player from my home course "Well, that's me 3 up then". I can't be the only one who thinks that golf is a gents game and should be played accordingly, I'd rather win with a putter in my hand than a rule book. [/FONT]

Given it was a Matchplay event he could have overlooked the breach of the Rules.

I think that we all understand where your coming from with your argument but:

All games have rules to play to

You don't know if the breach of rules is deliberate or accidental

You could have several breaches by an opponent on every hole and lose simply because of them

In Strokeplay you are refereeing for the rest of the entrants who arn't in your group

All proper sports have strict rules governing the way the game is played, without them the best cheat wins !!

 

[Paperboy]

(didn't the Irish golfer McGinley do this in a stroke play event and had to take the penalty shots for the hole/s played up until the discovery, despite this being the caddies job to check the bag before start), the 15th club has to be removed from the bag immediately and the game continues with him 3 down.(edit:forgot about the 2 hole maximum: probably another rule that needs revisiting by the governing bodies )
Unfortunate but that's the only outcome.

I know Ian Woosnam had that once he promptly sacked his caddy the next week. He was winning the tournament at the time and never recovered!!

 

[delc]

Given it was a Matchplay event he could have overlooked the breach of the Rules.

I think that we all understand where your coming from with your argument but:

All games have rules to play to

You don't know if the breach of rules is deliberate or accidental

You could have several breaches by an opponent on every hole and lose simply because of them

In Strokeplay you are refereeing for the rest of the entrants who arn't in your group

All proper sports have strict rules governing the way the game is played, without them the best cheat wins !!

Really it's a bit like a football team taking to the field with 12 players, or a Rugby Union team with 16 players. I remember that the latter did actually once happen for the last few minutes of an England match due to a substituting error, and there was a hell of a stink about it afterwards!

 

[guest100718]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Today, my playing partner told me about his experiences in a lower handicap match play event against other clubs, namely how competitive some players in the teams get. He told me of how last summer, he played an away game in which, on the third green, the player from my club discovered he had 15 clubs in his bag as he had taken 2 putters with him as he had never played the course before and didn't know how fast the greens were and had forgotten to take one out. Now if that had happened to me, I would think "that's any honest mistake, he has gained no advantage as he had only used one of the putters, just leave it in your bag and play on". Instead, the guy from the other team said to the player from my home course "Well, that's me 3 up then". I can't be the only one who thinks that golf is a gents game and should be played accordingly, I'd rather win with a putter in my hand than a rule book. [/FONT]

you're setting yourself up for a flaming.

 

[guest100718]

Given it was a Matchplay event he could have overlooked the breach of the Rules.

I think that we all understand where your coming from with your argument but:

All games have rules to play to

You don't know if the breach of rules is deliberate or accidental

You could have several breaches by an opponent on every hole and lose simply because of them

In Strokeplay you are refereeing for the rest of the entrants who arn't in your group

All proper sports have strict rules governing the way the game is played, without them the best cheat wins !!

You are not anyones referee.

 

[Ethan]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Today, my playing partner told me about his experiences in a lower handicap match play event against other clubs, namely how competitive some players in the teams get. He told me of how last summer, he played an away game in which, on the third green, the player from my club discovered he had 15 clubs in his bag as he had taken 2 putters with him as he had never played the course before and didn't know how fast the greens were and had forgotten to take one out. Now if that had happened to me, I would think "that's any honest mistake, he has gained no advantage as he had only used one of the putters, just leave it in your bag and play on". Instead, the guy from the other team said to the player from my home course "Well, that's me 3 up then". I can't be the only one who thinks that golf is a gents game and should be played accordingly, I'd rather win with a putter in my hand than a rule book. [/FONT]

You don't apply a penalty, he does. But he must. The questions of whether it is a honest mistake and/or an advantage gained or not are irrelevant. Penalties may apply from entirely unintentional actions, such as a rebounding ball hitting your body or golf bag. Pure fluke and chance event, but a penalty.

If you agree to waive it, you are both DQ'd.

 

[woody69]

fair enough then, I would just concede the number of holes until it is A/S again, I refuse to leave the golf course feeling like a cheat.

Why would you feel like a cheat for pulling someone up for breaking a rule?

 

[Foxholer]

I know Ian Woosnam had that once he promptly sacked his caddy the next week. He was winning the tournament at the time and never recovered!!

Not the next week. and not for that particular incident.

 

[guest100718]

Not the next week. and not for that particular incident.

Didnt he over sleep or something and caused him to miss a tee time?

 

[chrisd]

You are not anyones referee.

I think we've been down this one before Paddy and I don't intend to do so again. I think everyone understands that in a 3 ball strokeplay comp that everyone is looking to protect the integrity of the rules for the rest of the field who are not there to see what happens in their group - but you look at it whichever way you choose.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Sorry, just checked and he only got a 2 shot penalty as he only played the 1st hole with the extra driver. The extra club was discovered before he teed off on the 2nd. (It's 2 shots per hole up to a maximum of two holes). See:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYV-csdgRv0

Yes, I was there at Royal Lytham. Bit unlucky really as the first is a par 3 so didn't go near the driver until the 2nd tee.

 

[guest100718]

I think we've been down this one before Paddy and I don't intend to do so again. I think everyone understands that in a 3 ball strokeplay comp that everyone is looking to protect the integrity of the rules for the rest of the field who are not there to see what happens in their group - but you look at it whichever way you choose.

You should probably look up the defenition of referee.

 

[chrisd]

You should probably look up the defenition of referee.

You should probably look up the definition of pedantic.

You know what I'm saying is correct in reality.