Yellow Tee Competition Winners

[Ridgeman]

Just wanted to sense check if this was only my course. Competitions played off the yellow tees, which in the main are winter stablefords and summer senior competions are usually won by players with mid 20's and higher handicaps. When I say usually its around 80% plus of the time. It s completely different for white tee competions where such high handicaps only rarely win. Is there an issue with the handicap system for playing off yellows generally or is it just local to us.

 

[Grizzly]

Is it more to do with the conditions and scoring systems? In winter scores tend to be higher because of the prevalence of wet/boggy conditions, and higher handicappers have much more leeway with all their strokes for the odd bad contact/impossible lie/ball disappearing underground. Meanwhile, stableford is easier for the high handicapper as well because it allows them to escape a lot of the implications of their worst shots, whilst maximising the benefits of their good ones.

 

[Ridgeman]

Very good points.

 

[rulefan]

Just wanted to sense check if this was only my course. Competitions played off the yellow tees, which in the main are winter stablefords and summer senior competions are usually won by players with mid 20's and higher handicaps. When I say usually its around 80% plus of the time. It s completely different for white tee competions where such high handicaps only rarely win. Is there an issue with the handicap system for playing off yellows generally or is it just local to us.

When were the white & yellow tees last rated?
What are the respective Course Ratings/Slopes & Pars?

 

[D-S]

Is it also likely that yellow tee competitions attract a much higher proportion of higher handicappers in the field and the opposite is true for white tee comps?

 

[IanMcC]

Simple solution is to have 2 or more divisions. We are in a similar position. No white tees and no qualifiers yet, but our weekend comps are always played with 2 divisions.

 

[jim8flog]

We have divisions and therefore do not have this problem.

 

[Swango1980]

Just wanted to sense check if this was only my course. Competitions played off the yellow tees, which in the main are winter stablefords and summer senior competions are usually won by players with mid 20's and higher handicaps. When I say usually its around 80% plus of the time. It s completely different for white tee competions where such high handicaps only rarely win. Is there an issue with the handicap system for playing off yellows generally or is it just local to us.

Are you comparing the winners of competitions mainly won by Seniors with weekend club competitions played off the white tees?

I would have thought the handicaps of Seniors were generally a lot higher than the average handicaps of those playing in the weekend comps from all members.

Just had a look at the handicaps of the last medals played at my course. These were:

Weekend Mens Comp (White Tees):
Players: 58
Hcps 0-9 = 15 (26%)
Hcps 10-19 = 28 (48%)
Hcps 20-29 = 15 (26%)

Avg Hcp = 14

Seniors Comp (Yellow Tees):
Players: 34
Hcps 0-9 = 1 (3%)
Hcps 10-19 = 9 (26%)
Hcps 20-29 = 21 (62%)
Hcps 30-39 = 3 (9%)

Avg Hcp = 22

Furthermore, Stablefords should generally provide a more balanced chance of winning for all handicappers (as handicaps are effectively worked out by an adjusted gross score (i.e. like stableford)). In medal play, you score a 15 on a hole, every shot counts. And it is the higher handicappers that will more likely throw in the disaster holes of nett triple bogey or worse. So, this wouldn't reflect on the tees being played, but the competition format. If more medals were played off your yellow tees, I'm guessing this would sometimes rule out the Stableford winner, if they had at least one blob that would have been a nightmare score. So, you might get a few more lower handicap players winning off the yellow tees in medal.

I'm not sure if this is true, also, but do some of the better players stay away from winter comps? If the course is ever reduced to temporary greens, much shorter, etc, that is a huge equalizer. Course can be much shorter than rated. Temp greens are difficult to hold for better players, and difficult to putt on with unpredictable bobbles. So, their short game strengths are almost nullified. Whereas for higher handicappers, who probably struggle to pepper pins on the main greens, and chip and putt poorly, temporary greens don't really make that aspect of their game much worse.

 

[rulefan]

Just wanted to sense check if this was only my course. Competitions played off the yellow tees, which in the main are winter stablefords and summer senior competions are usually won by players with mid 20's and higher handicaps. When I say usually its around 80% plus of the time. It s completely different for white tee competions where such high handicaps only rarely win. Is there an issue with the handicap system for playing off yellows generally or is it just local to us.

Unless the Ratings are dodgy I would look at the proportion of players in the various handicap ranges vs the no of winners from those ranges.
CONGU stats showed that there was a strong correlation between them.

 

[Neilds]

Unless the Ratings are dodgy I would look at the proportion of players in the various handicap ranges vs the no of winners from those ranges.
CONGU stats showed that there was a strong correlation between them.

How dare you suggest that someone does some proper research? It is much easier to say that the system is wrong and people have too high a handicap than actually look at facts

 

[Canary Kid]

I am a high handicapper, with the main reason for this being that, as a 73 year old, I have lost distance. When I play off the whites, the extra distance involved means that, on some longer holes, I need an extra shot to reach the green as compared to off the yellows. This probably adds five shots to my round, but the difference in my course handicap is only two shots. Therefore, whilst I might be competitive some days off the yellows, I will always struggle off the whites.

Addendum: I have not played yet this month due to the course being so wet, so I hadn’t yet checked the rating tables post 1 April. Having now done so, I think that I will now be uncompetitive on both sets of tees! . I have lost three shots off the yellows and one off the whites.

 

[Swango1980]

I am a high handicapper, with the main reason for this being that, as a 73 year old, I have lost distance. When I play off the whites, the extra distance involved means that, on some longer holes, I need an extra shot to reach the green as compared to off the yellows. This probably adds five shots to my round, but the difference in my course handicap is only two shots. Therefore, whilst I might be competitive some days off the yellows, I will always struggle off the whites.

Is this before or after the changes to WHS at the start of this month?

 

[Canary Kid]

See addendum.

 

[wjemather]

Addendum: I have not played yet this month due to the course being so wet, so I hadn’t yet checked the rating tables post 1 April. Having now done so, I think that I will now be uncompetitive on both sets of tees! . I have lost three shots off the yellows and one off the whites.

This change affects all golfers the same, so you will be no more or less competitive than before.
And if your (an everyone else's) Handicap Index is a fair reflection of your (and their) ability, and the course is setup as it should be (so the ratings are accurate), then you will be equally as competitive (or uncompetitive) as everyone else.

 

[Swango1980]

See addendum.

In response to your Addendum.

You won't be less competitive. Because, if you have lost 3 shots off yellows and 1 shot off whites, so has everyone else (depending on rounding). So, you'd be just as competitive. However, the points you require to play to handicap will now be less than what was required before.

 

[Canary Kid]

I take your point but, as my problem is a lack of distance, I suspect that the “lost” shots may have a disproportionately adverse effect on me.

 

[doublebogey7]

I take your point but, as my problem is a lack of distance, I suspect that the “lost” shots may have a disproportionately adverse effect on me.

How so, when every one else you play against will lose the same number of shots. Golf is played in hard numbers not percentages.

 

[Swango1980]

I take your point but, as my problem is a lack of distance, I suspect that the “lost” shots may have a disproportionately adverse effect on me.

Do you submit many cards for handicap?

 

[D-S]

I take your point but, as my problem is a lack of distance, I suspect that the “lost” shots may have a disproportionately adverse effect on me.

So if we had a system where every player in the field received suddenly 3 extra shots, you would suddenly have a major advantage and be guaranteed to win?

 

[rulefan]

I am a high handicapper, with the main reason for this being that, as a 73 year old, I have lost distance. When I play off the whites, the extra distance involved means that, on some longer holes, I need an extra shot to reach the green as compared to off the yellows. This probably adds five shots to my round, but the difference in my course handicap is only two shots. Therefore, whilst I might be competitive some days off the yellows, I will always struggle off the whites.

Addendum: I have not played yet this month due to the course being so wet, so I hadn’t yet checked the rating tables post 1 April. Having now done so, I think that I will now be uncompetitive on both sets of tees! . I have lost three shots off the yellows and one off the whites.

Presumably your handicap will start going up until you become competitive again. In addition if length is the issue, the slope will reflect that and compensate in the calculations.