Wrong Handicaps in Matchplay.

[clubchamp98]

It is a player's responsibility to protect his own interests and it is obviously in his interest to make sure his opponent doesn't get more strokes the he is entitled to. The Rule is there for the Committee to use to penalise the opponent who declares a wrong handicap and gets more strokes than he should. The player can't do that.

Some people don’t like confrontation so your basically calling him a cheat before you even tee off.!

Or wait until the last putt goes in and then call him out before the result is posted.

Not good either way.

 

[salfordlad]

Some Rules of Golf invoke a significant emotional response - this is clearly one of them. Many of the responses here - including from the Union that dazzler consulted - let their emotional response override what the Rules state. There are no tricky issues here, the Rules state the result must stand, the references being 3.2c(1) and 20.1b(3). But for anyone still thinking they believe the answer is different, let's go to the printed words from the Ruling Bodies - a Decision in place until 2019, when many Decisions were culled in the process of shortening the book and getting as many answers as possible within the Rules themselves:

Decision 6-2a/5
Wrong Handicap Used in Match by Mistake; Error Discovered
After Result Officially Announced
Q. In a handicap match between A and B, A stated by mistake before the
match began that his handicap was ten strokes, whereas in fact his handicap
was nine strokes. The match was played on the basis that A’s handicap was
ten strokes. A won the match. The error was discovered after the result had
been officially announced. What is the ruling?
A. The match stands as played. No claim by B could be considered unless A
had known he was giving wrong information about his handicap – see Rules
2-5, 6-2a and 34-1a

The Mapping Summary Chart, in guiding what happened to all the old Decisions, tells us the rules outcome is unchanged, the Decision (one of many) is eliminated, and the updated answer is found in Rules 3.2c(1) and 20.1b(3).

Thank you dazzler for bringing the question and welcome to the forum.

 

[Steven Rules]

The facts of the matter became known after the result was final, but neither Rule 3.2(d)1 nor Rule 3.2d(2) is involved.

I am unconvinced that 3.2d(2) is not involved. As I said at #6:

3.2c(1) is clear that if a player declares a handicap that is too high and this affects the number of strokes the player gives or gets, and does not correct the mistake before the opponent makes their next stroke, the player is disqualified.

Team 1 breached 3.2d(2) by failing to tell Team 2 about the disqualification penalty that Team 1 had just incurred. The fact that Team 1 did not know about the penalty is irrelevant under 3.2d(2).

 

[Steven Rules]

I believe there is a real tension between 20.1b(3), in which there is no intervention for a penalty that comes to light after the result is final as long as the player didn't know of the breach before the result is final, and Rule 3.2d(2), in which the player must tell the opponent that the player has incurred a penalty as soon as reasonably possible even if the player does not know about the penalty because players are expected to recognise when they have breached a Rule.

I do recognise, however, that there needs to be a time limit on rulings. You can't be overturning results weeks, months or years later when new information comes to hand.

 

[salfordlad]

I believe there is a real tension between 20.1b(3), in which there is no intervention for a penalty that comes to light after the result is final as long as the player didn't know of the breach before the result is final, and Rule 3.2d(2), in which the player must tell the opponent that the player has incurred a penalty as soon as reasonably possible even if the player does not know about the penalty because players are expected to recognise when they have breached a Rule.

I do recognise, however, that there needs to be a time limit on rulings. You can't be overturning results weeks, months or years later when new information comes to hand.

I agree there is a tension. But each rule is there for a specific purpose and a Committee/referee dealing with match play ruling requests is the stuff of 20.1b, the overarching rule that applies for the precise reason you touch on in your second paragraph.

 

[Colin L]

Some people don’t like confrontation so your basically calling him a cheat before you even tee off.!

Or wait until the last putt goes in and then call him out before the result is posted.

Not good either way.

Swango asked a question and I gave a factual answer which said nothing about cheating. Errors in declaring handicaps can be entirely innocent mistakes or deliberate falsehoods. Make of that what you will, but kindly don't put words in my mouth.

 

[doublebogey7]

You don’t they are DQ simple.
Whoever there playing gets a bye unless there’s time for the opponents they cheated to play in their place.

Yes why have rules if you’re going to give them the benefit of the dought.
Ignorance is no defence in a lot of things including sport.!

Yes if you think your off 19 but your really 18 that’s your own fault for not checking.
It’s never been easier to check you can do it without getting out of bed now on the app.
If that extra shot your not entitled to wins you the game how is that fair to your opponent.?

Maybe that the player miscalculated their CH or read across the wrong line on the handicap board, individuals make such honest mistakes every day you know. Seems to make more sense to me that all parties check and agree handicaps.

Anyway it's clear that we are not going to change each others mind, so that's my last word on the subject and I will continue to offer advice on the rules as they are currently written by those who have way more knowledge than I.

 

[Swango1980]

I still think it is a bit harsh that DQ does not apply for a team declaring a higher handicap, so long as they write their name as victors immediately after the match. Thus, if it is only found out after the match (maybe an hour, maybe that day or the next), the result still stands. Would it not at least be normal for a Committee to say posted results are only final on the deadline of the round?

As an opponent, I will often check their handicaps. But, sometimes I haven't had time, or was playing early and didn't check if their handicap had changed from day before.

Also recently played 5 rounds in Daily Mail Foursomes. Often we had no way of checking handicaps, as we didn't know who we were playing. Could only check after, once we knew their names

 

[salfordlad]

I still think it is a bit harsh that DQ does not apply for a team declaring a higher handicap, so long as they write their name as victors immediately after the match. Thus, if it is only found out after the match (maybe an hour, maybe that day or the next), the result still stands. Would it not at least be normal for a Committee to say posted results are only final on the deadline of the round?

As an opponent, I will often check their handicaps. But, sometimes I haven't had time, or was playing early and didn't check if their handicap had changed from day before.

Also recently played 5 rounds in Daily Mail Foursomes. Often we had no way of checking handicaps, as we didn't know who we were playing. Could only check after, once we knew their names

The Committee determines when a match result is final (CP 5A(7)), they are free to apply what they think is best.

 

[clubchamp98]

Swango asked a question and I gave a factual answer which said nothing about cheating. Errors in declaring handicaps can be entirely innocent mistakes or deliberate falsehoods. Make of that what you will, but kindly don't put words in my mouth.

I didn’t mean you personally I meant anyone in that position.
My apologies.

 

[Colin L]

I didn’t mean you personally I meant anyone in that position.
My apologies.

Thanks for that. .

Typical of me: give me two possibilities and I'l pick the wrong one.