Would you say anything????............

..... but you are not required by the rules to mark the position of your ball if you aren't going to replace it and the rules only suggest that you "should" mark it if possible. I think, but could be wrong, that the requirement to actually mark the ball for winter rules (as you're not replacing it) has to actually be worded in the local rule and not all clubs write their local rules correctly.

I'm sure i'll be told if this isn't right!
 
Do you have to actually use something like a tee or coin to mark the ball or can you use a feature on the ground instead? For example if my ball came to rest behind a worm cast could I use the worm cast as my marker?
 
Or go along the lines of

" out of curiosity do you mind if i ask, as a good player would you not avail of the option to mark clean & place the ball or does it make it any difference to you at all ? "

People can say what they like on here but i guarantee this happens in most clubs regularly .. newer or not so confident members are hesitant to question or call a so called good golfer on things ..
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Q. So how do I prefer the lie?

If the player chooses to prefer the lie of the ball, the position of the ball must be first marked. Most players will use a tee to mark the position of the ball but a coin or other similarly sized object is suitable. Once the ball has been marked, the player can then lift the ball and clean it if desired. The ball must then be placed on a spot no nearer the hole within the area specified by the Committee, e.g. within six inches.

It is worth noting that the specified area in which to place the ball can vary from club to club. Some committees will stipulate within six inches, others a score card-length or perhaps even one club-length. There is no hard and fast Rule, therefore it is best to check in advance the distance the placement has to occur, to avoid any unnecessary penalties.

This is something PGA Tour golfer Ryuji Imada would have been advised to do, to avoid the 26-stroke penalty he incurred at a recent tournament in China. Imada assumed he could prefer the lie of the ball within a club-length of its original position, as is standard on the PGA Tour. But the Local Rules for this tournament stated that the placement had to occur within the length of one score-card. When this was brought to Imada’s attention he informed tournament officials before signing his card. He was assessed a two-stroke penalty for each of the thirteen times he had preferred the lie outside of the prescribed distance and finally signed for a first round total of 24-over-par, 97!

Q. What happens if I do not mark the position of the ball or move it in another way to prefer the lie?

If the player fails to mark the position of the ball before lifting it or moves the ball in any other manner, such as rolling it with the club, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke.

http://www.randa.org/en/RandA/News/Features/2010/December/Preferred-Lies.aspx

Sorry but when did we decide to start picking and choosing which rules to follow and which to ignore.
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I'm sure I'll regret this but, go on, which rule says you mustmark before preferring your lie? Which rule would we be choosing not to follow in this scenario?

As long as he didn't move it more than six inches I think you'd need to be pretty anal to call a penalty. Different matter if he lifted it to clean the ball and didn't mark, but that's not the scenario in the OP.
 
FairwayDodger said:
I'm sure I'll regret this but, go on, which rule says you mustmark before preferring your lie? Which rule would we be choosing not to follow in this scenario?

As long as he didn't move it more than six inches I think you'd need to be pretty anal to call a penalty. Different matter if he lifted it to clean the ball and didn't mark, but that's not the scenario in the OP.
Click to expand...

I think its only the local rule in place that say you must mark the ball (assuming that the local rule is written correctly). As I posted earlier, you are only Obliged to mark the ball if you are replacing it on the same spot under the rules
 
FairwayDodger said:
I'm sure I'll regret this but, go on, which rule says you mustmark before preferring your lie? Which rule would we be choosing not to follow in this scenario?

As long as he didn't move it more than six inches I think you'd need to be pretty anal to call a penalty. Different matter if he lifted it to clean the ball and didn't mark, but that's not the scenario in the OP.
Click to expand...

I believe Rule 20-1 might be the one that explains the marking procedure for a ball that is to be moved

Appendix 1 is the guidelines for clubs for local rules and winter rules and they point to rule 20-1 in regards marking the ball
 
ShankyBoy said:
I'd take the naive approach and ask "I didn't realise you can just roll it with your club, I thought it had to be marked so it stays within 6 inches" and see what he said.

Agree, you can't pick and choose rules.
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Exactly how I would do it, with a quizical face as well to add innocence.
 
FairwayDodger said:
I'm sure I'll regret this but, go on, which rule says you mustmark before preferring your lie? Which rule would we be choosing not to follow in this scenario?

As long as he didn't move it more than six inches I think you'd need to be pretty anal to call a penalty. Different matter if he lifted it to clean the ball and didn't mark, but that's not the scenario in the OP.
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Possibly 20.-1 ? but that does say a ball that is required to be "replaced"... NOT "placed" within 6 inches .so not 100% sure

Apologies Phil , Typing at same time
 
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As the guy was 'stand offish' I too would act in that way - disengage personally from him and simply state the rule - saying 'sorry - that's how it is'. One shot penalty - get it over and done with on the 1st. He has plenty of time to make the penalty shot not matter. We have notices on all tables in the clubhouse stating the Winter Rule for this and making absolutely clear that a ball must be marked before lifing.

I have made a mental note that whenever I am on 1st tee I will remind PPs of the Winter Rule in full - including that marking of ball is required. I did this in the medal on Sat with my two PPs - just to ensure we were all clear on the rule for lifting and placing
 
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I see it (club used to move ball) regularly enough when preferred lies in play from golfers of all abilities but I'd suspect the 'bigger' breach is the ball being placed more than once when preferring a lie but that's kinda off topic

Also the local rule for preferring a lie doesn't make any provision for 'warning a player', 'suggesting they change in future or else...' or any other statement that acknowledges an LR breach, without applying the penalty so wouldn't any statement like this mean you've agreed to waive the local rule?
 
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bobmac said:
If you dont mark the ball and just roll it with your club, you could move it more than 6in.
If you dont mark the ball and pick it up to clean it you might put it back in the wrong place.
The important thing is to place the ball ẃithin 6in (or ẃhatever your local rule is).
He has done that.
Thē bit of the rule he has broken is there to protect the main bit of the rule that he didn't break.
Click to expand...

So if you break part of a rule, but leave another part unbroken, have you broken the rule or not?

If the rule says you are required to mark the ball first, then once you move the ball, whether with your hand, club or other body part, without having marked it, then you have broken the rule.

No harm done is not a factor in determining whether a rule is broken or not.
 
Slab said:
I see it (club used to move ball) regularly enough when preferred lies in play from golfers of all abilities but I'd suspect the 'bigger' breach is the ball being placed more than once when preferring a lie but that's kinda off topic

Also the local rule for preferring a lie doesn't make any provision for 'warning a player', 'suggesting they change in future or else...' or any other statement that acknowledges an LR breach, without applying the penalty so wouldn't any statement like this mean you've agreed to waive the local rule?
Click to expand...

It's so very easy just to remind each other of the winter rules when on the 1st tee - and especially necessary I feel after work as been done on the course and there are such as slit-tining cuts in the first cut rough - and that run into the deeper rough. Just take 2mins on the 1st tee to run through them so everyone is clear.

Do that and players can have no issue being 'called' for a breach.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
I believe Rule 20-1 might be the one that explains the marking procedure for a ball that is to be moved

Appendix 1 is the guidelines for clubs for local rules and winter rules and they point to rule 20-1 in regards marking the ball
Click to expand...


Phil, I had this one sometime ago in a match and Rule 20-1 only covers a ball to be replaced, that is on the same spot like a putt. A ball that is going to be moved (even 6") doesn't generally have to be marked but its still a good idea to do so for the avoidance of argument. So the local rule makes it mandatory in winter rules to mark the ball
 
bobmac said:
And yet, if you're dropping the ball a club length or two away, you ḏont need ṭo mark it :confused:
Click to expand...

I'd have thought this was simply to do with the random nature of the resting place of the ball from a drop - compared with the player being able to choose precisely the spot to place his ball.
 
bobmac said:
And yet, if you're dropping the ball a club length or two away, you ḏont need ṭo mark it :confused:
Click to expand...

its not mandatory to mark it but I'd generally do it for the avoidance of doubt. In my case it would have been pretty impossible to mark its exact position and an opponent oversaw the procedure for identifying the ball and a legal drop
 
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