World Handicap System

[Crazyface]

Yes; I believe so; Yes. We reset all Rollup handicaps to their club handicap when the clocks go back; and then again when the clocks go forward.

And yes - a 'bandit' exposed in our rollup will equally be a 'bandit' in club comps. But the club runs many qualifying comps and so 'bandits' are soon reined in by the club. The club has never needed our rollup to do that. Besides - the fact is that almost all of us who play in the SRU also play in almost all club competitions year round. Handicaps are generally appropriate. He who wins the rollup any Saturday has usually just had an unusually good day.

And should add. As well as playing individual s/ford we also play 4BBB in our groups of four. That's one reason we allow gimmes. Again that combination of formats plus gimmes would appear to disqualify our rollup comp from being a q-comp. Unless we are forced to abandon our format. And that will go down very badly.

Sound very much like my last place. Although I never participated. I hate getting out of bed early in the winter just to traipse round a muddy field. I wait until the suns up and at least some warmth is available.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Taking a slightly different tack I ask the question...

How many know of any rollups/swindles at their club that are being told that any associated competition will be a qualifier for WHS purposes.

Also would be good to know if you know of a rollup/swindle at your club that has an associated competition and the rollup/swindle is NOT being so affected.

Just to get a feel for how rollups/swindles across the country are being impacted by WHS

 

[nickjdavis]

When the WHS goes live we will not be forcing non-club-organised informal "roll ups" to enter scores for handicapping purposes.

These are groups of guys and gals who want a fun round of golf without worrying about what might happen to their handicap if they have a good/bad day. They are there for some light hearted golfing relief away from the "pressures" of a formal comp and their work or wives/husbands or whatever. Its a time for them to be rude, politically incorrect, insulting, sexist, racist, heightest, fattist, towards each other and trundle a little white ball around a green field for a bit of fun.

Believe it or not there are many players who simply don't want every round to be a "round for handicap"...sometimes they just want to play....and if they want to play and add a little bit of spice by throwing some small stakes into a pot (skins is the preferred format and most groups also have a little 4BBB match going on at the same time) and are happy to give gimmes from within a foot, then who the hell are the committee to ride roughshod over their fun and tell them that it seems they are playing a formal comp and therefore they must hole out and submit all of their cards?

The vast majority of these players play in most of the club competitions anyway, so sparing them a little light relief seems perfectly reasonable. What is it that all the gambling companies now say...."when the fun stops...stop" ? Well take the fun away from some golfers and they WILL stop playing, which is exactly what the WHS is designed to avoid!!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

When the WHS goes live we will not be forcing non-club-organised informal "roll ups" to enter scores for handicapping purposes.

These are groups of guys and gals who want a fun round of golf without worrying about what might happen to their handicap if they have a good/bad day. They are there for some light hearted golfing relief away from the "pressures" of a formal comp and their work or wives/husbands or whatever. Its a time for them to be rude, politically incorrect, insulting, sexist, racist, heightest, fattist, towards each other and trundle a little white ball around a green field for a bit of fun.

Believe it or not there are many players who simply don't want every round to be a "round for handicap"...sometimes they just want to play....and if they want to play and add a little bit of spice by throwing some small stakes into a pot (skins is the preferred format and most groups also have a little 4BBB match going on at the same time) and are happy to give gimmes from within a foot, then who the hell are the committee to ride roughshod over their fun and tell them that it seems they are playing a formal comp and therefore they must hole out and submit all of their cards?

The vast majority of these players play in most of the club competitions anyway, so sparing them a little light relief seems perfectly reasonable. What is is that all the gambling companies now say...."when the fun stops...stop" ? Well take the fun away from some golfers and they WILL stop playing, which is exactly what the WHS is designed to avoid!!

Every member of our Saturday Rollup would agree 100% with every word. This is heartening as it suggests that your club has not read or interpreted WHS rules as requiring your club's rollups to become qualifiers. Do members wishing to play in any of your rollups have to register interest in doing so in advance of the day? Are your rollups organised using your club's competition and tee booking system - assuming that it uses one.

I am needing more such evidence from other club's

 

[Old Skier]

Taking a slightly different tack I ask the question...

How many know of any rollups/swindles at their club that are being told that any associated competition will be a qualifier for WHS purposes.

Also would be good to know if you know of a rollup/swindle at your club that has an associated competition and the rollup/swindle is NOT being so affected.

Just to get a feel for how rollups/swindles across the country are being impacted by WHS

We have one every Friday and I’ve had a chat with the organisers and agreed that one a month, 1st Friday of the month, will be under comp conditions and cards will be entered and set up for use on the PSI. Everyone has said they are happy with that.

 

[nickjdavis]

Every member of our Saturday Rollup would agree 100% with every word. This is heartening as it suggests that your club has not read or interpreted WHS rules as requiring your club's rollups to become qualifiers. Do members wishing to play in any of your rollups have to register interest in doing so in advance of the day? Are your rollups organised using your club's competition and tee booking system - assuming that it uses one.

I am needing more such evidence from other club's

The only registration of interest is via the Whats-App group that the skins organiser runs and uses to communicate with the folks who want to play (and not everyone plays every week) , there is no use of the Handicapping software system. There are generally half a dozen tee times set aside in the book in the pro-shop and the first 20, 24 folks who tell the organiser they want to play are "in". The Club Committee who organise all competitive events are not involved one little bit in such informal games.

 

[rulefan]

a large sign is up at my place giving H/C's and how to convert WHS to what it should be to play our course, Problem is that it is assuming your place is rated less than ours....I think, as all the h/c's went up! There was no figures to show how to convert your H/C is your place was rated higher, so your H/C would be lower to play at ours.....I think...yes?

The 'large sign' is specific to the tees at your club. Other clubs will have different 'large signs' which will be specific to the tees at that club. So your playing handicap will vary from course to course.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

We have one every Friday and I’ve had a chat with the organisers and agreed that one a month, 1st Friday of the month, will be under comp conditions and cards will be entered and set up for use on the PSI. Everyone has said they are happy with that.

But your rollup is not required to be a q-comp - and most certainly not very week. Ty.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The only registration of interest is via the Whats-App group that the skins organiser runs and uses to communicate with the folks who want to play (and not everyone plays every week) , there is no use of the Handicapping software system. There are generally half a dozen tee times set aside in the book in the pro-shop and the first 20, 24 folks who tell the organiser they want to play are "in". The Club Committee who organise all competitive events are not involved one little bit in such informal games.

We do pretty much the same - but using the online tee booking system. We open The ‘book’ registering to play a week in advance. We ‘close the book’ last thing Thursday as the organiser then does the random draw for the 4 balls and tee times. We are emailed on Friday of our tee time and we can look online to see who we have been drawn to be playing with.

 

[rulefan]

We do pretty much the same - but using the online tee booking system. We open The ‘book’ registering to play a week in advance. We ‘close the book’ last thing Thursday as the organiser then does the random draw for the 4 balls and tee times. We are emailed on Friday of our tee time and we can look online to see who we have been drawn to be playing with.

Much the same with us

 

[rulie]

Taking a slightly different tack I ask the question...

How many know of any rollups/swindles at their club that are being told that any associated competition will be a qualifier for WHS purposes.

Also would be good to know if you know of a rollup/swindle at your club that has an associated competition and the rollup/swindle is NOT being so affected.

Just to get a feel for how rollups/swindles across the country are being impacted by WHS

Recognize that it is not the WHS that may be dictating this, it is the national handicap authority doing it (imo).

 

[Wildboy370]

If you play off the mats it is acceptable for handicap purpose

GH/2 Local Rule Requiring Compulsory Use Of Fairway Mats
Acceptable Scores may be returned in Competitions and in General Play when there is a Local Rule requiring the compulsory use of fairway mats provided:

If you lift and place in the first cut it is not.

GH/5 Local Rule Requiring A Ball To Be Lifted From The Fairway And Dropped or Placed In The Semi-Rough
The introduction of a Local Rule permitting lifting the ball from the fairway and dropping or placing into the semi-rough (first cut), in order to protect the fairway, is not acceptable for handicap purposes. Such a procedure is not within the Rules of Golf. An alternative solution for fairway protection is required for an Acceptable Score such as the use of preferred lies or fairway mats.

Hi.
thanks for the reply and clearing it up. I didnt think we would be allowed but our handicap secretary sees it differently and thinks it should as we have been playing that way for years. Personally I don’t like the ruling. To me if your ball is on the fairway play off the May. Just because you either don’t like the mat or can’t play well off them seems a free hit to me if u can move the ball. Bit like saying if ur in a bunker but don’t like it move it to the grass outside, wouldnt happen and each year there are big arguments as to what constitutes the fairway etc..

 

[rulefan]

Hi.
but our handicap secretary sees it differently and thinks it should as we have been playing that way for years.

The rule was the same under the 'old' rules. Mats only on the fairway. No dropping or placing in the 'rough'.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Much the same with us

...and to check - it is the case with you that that process in itself does not make the rollup comp a q-comp.

 

[fenwayrich]

Under the present Covid rules, every tee time has to be booked. My understanding is that we will be offering Optional Stablefords twice a week, which unlike previous years will be qualifying in the winter. Having booked your tee time you will be required to sign in to enter. If you don't sign in it will be assumed that you are playing 'social golf'. Roll ups can then choose whether to play in a qualifying competition or not. We have gimmes so most of our group will carry on as before, but those that also want to enter the competition can do so, and putt out in compliance with the Rules.

Slight problem for our Ladies who like things to be more ordered. Their Wednesday competitions over 14 holes in winter are run by the club and therefore could have to be qualifying. They are not happy.

 

[rulefan]

It is rather confusing. Some communications say or imply 'may' and others 'should'. I don't think I've seen 'must' although the Guidance comes close.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It is rather confusing. Some communications say or imply 'may' and others 'should'. I don't think I've seen 'must' although the Guidance comes close.

Indeed, and in the context of requirements leave compliance open and optional. If the intention is to convey a mandatory requirement then it is not difficult to use ‘will’ and ‘must’.

 

[jim8flog]

Hi.
thanks for the reply and clearing it up. I didnt think we would be allowed but our handicap secretary sees it differently and thinks it should as we have been playing that way for years. Personally I don’t like the ruling. To me if your ball is on the fairway play off the May. Just because you either don’t like the mat or can’t play well off them seems a free hit to me if u can move the ball. Bit like saying if ur in a bunker but don’t like it move it to the grass outside, wouldnt happen and each year there are big arguments as to what constitutes the fairway etc..

Just because they have seen it that way for years does not make them right. Sometimes these people just need to have the written rules brought to their attention.


I have played at loads of clubs where secretary's and managers do not want to follow the rules with a lot of non allowable local rules in place.

 

[jim8flog]

Slight problem for our Ladies who like things to be more ordered. Their Wednesday competitions over 14 holes in winter are run by the club and therefore could have to be qualifying. They are not happy.

28
2.1a Played in an Authorized Format of Play

Authorized formats of play are:
Format of Play Type of Round Number of Holes
Individual stroke play
Organized competition 9 18
General play 9 18
Stableford — organized competition 9 18
Stableford — general play 9 18
Par/Bogey — organized competition 9 18
Par/Bogey — general play 9 18
Maximum Score — organized competition 9 18
Maximum Score — general play 9 18

I suppose 14 hole competitions could be scaled up using Rule 3 but my interpretation of that Rule is impose penalty scores in a 18 hole competition.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

28
2.1a Played in an Authorized Format of Play

Authorized formats of play are:
Format of Play Type of Round Number of Holes
Individual stroke play
Organized competition 9 18
General play 9 18
Stableford — organized competition 9 18
Stableford — general play 9 18
Par/Bogey — organized competition 9 18
Par/Bogey — general play 9 18
Maximum Score — organized competition 9 18
Maximum Score — general play 9 18

I suppose 14 hole competitions could be scaled up using Rule 3 but my interpretation of that Rule is impose penalty scores in a 18 hole competition.

Is the list of 2.1a in respect of WHS or the Rules of Golf? Our rollup comp is an organised s/ford comp - though not one organised by the club as it is organised by the rollup. However in any strokeplay (medal or s/ford) comp gimmes are not allowed as players must hole out to avoid NR for the hole. Therefore our rollup comp is not an authorised format and therefore cannot be a qualifier....unless we are told we must change the format to make it so