World Handicap System

Joined
Jun 10, 2021
Messages
443
That decimal is only of significance to about 10% of GB&I golfers and then only used when a Playing Handicap is to be calculated manually.
We were talking about the Scottish interpretation, so 100% of what was discussed at that point.

And no, folks go to the first tee, saw the rounded number, and were doing 95% of that. For the first few weeks of the year I had loads of queiries why their playing handicap wasn;t what they thought it was going to be.

But, the point being made, was thae cost of those boards, and their use has been an utter waste of time.
 

wjemather

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
734
Location
Bristol
Genuine question... are you just saying that isn't the case because they are for working out course handicap first? They are ultimately for working out playing handicaps as well surely :)

Maybe the auths should have taken out a step in the process. Put the Playing Handicap on the blooming board for stroke play, then have a % for match play and other derivatives. Maybe that was too easy.
No, they are for Course Handicaps only. In England, Wales and Ireland they may be used for onward calculation of Playing Handicaps, but that is not their purpose; and it is still recommended that such calculations are not done manually - England Golf's message has been along the lines of "play with your Course Handicap in mind and leave your Playing Handicap and competition results to the software". Of course, they are occasions when leaving it to the software is not possible, but the use of apps/calculators is recommended in such cases.

Course Handicap is required by the rules, and is what net double-bogeys adjustments are based on for handicapping; regardless of Playing Handicap, players should hole out in Stableford (for example) according to their Course Handicap when it affords them more strokes.
 
Joined
Jun 10, 2021
Messages
443
No, they are for Course Handicaps only. In England, Wales and Ireland they may be used for onward calculation of Playing Handicaps, but that is not their purpose; and it is still recommended that such calculations are not done manually - England Golf's message has been along the lines of "play with your Course Handicap in mind and leave your Playing Handicap and competition results to the software". Of course, they are occasions when leaving it to the software is not possible, but the use of apps/calculators is recommended in such cases.

Course Handicap is required by the rules, and is what net double-bogeys adjustments are based on for handicapping; regardless of Playing Handicap, players should hole out in Stableford (for example) according to their Course Handicap when it affords them more strokes.
That's sound advice tbf, I may use that for the perpetual moaners.
 

IanM

Journeyman Pro
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
7,416
Location
Monmouthshire, UK via Guildford!
No, they are for Course Handicaps only. In England, Wales and Ireland they may be used for onward calculation of Playing Handicaps,

A tip from a well meaning bloke on the forum... The use of it by the poster was pretty clear and it isn't "may"... it is exactly that in practice despite what advise may be given (and I haven't been to Scotland since WHS) .

The second half of #1183 however is great qualification of what you said. I think that is generally poorly understood by most golfers. Maybe that's because the explanation of it was... well you know! Also, for most club gofers, we are only talking about on or two holes where this is an issue, so maybe that's why the lack of understanding. (not sure I knew)

Players have (in practice) operated on a "playing handicaps" for as long as there have been handicaps..(even if not called same)........... so chances of awareness is slim, I'm in Wales and have seen no such message. The manatra has always been "HI, table to get CH, then shoes and socks off to work out PH" Then folk focus solely on the Ph. (I'll test this on my 4 ball in the morning and I bet none of them know that net double-bogeys adjustments are based on CH. ) Folk still focus on the "do I get a shot here (in the comp) or not??"

Every day us a school day

Edit: Donna has just entered the room so I asked her about this. She said, "Don't confuse me any further. We (St Pierre GC) have been told to just put CH on the card and the machinery will sort out the comp. I know what ever I score, a couple will come off it for the comp!"

I wonder if that helps or not :)
 
Last edited:

Swango1980

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
2,883
A tip from a well meaning bloke on the forum... The use of it by the poster was pretty clear and it isn't "may"... it is exactly that in practice despite what advise may be given (and I haven't been to Scotland since WHS) .

The second half of #1183 however is great qualification of what you said. I think that is generally poorly understood by most golfers. Maybe that's because the explanation of it was... well you know! Also, for most club gofers, we are only talking about on or two holes where this is an issue, so maybe that's why the lack of understanding. (not sure I knew)

Players have (in practice) operated on a "playing handicaps" for as long as there have been handicaps..(even if not called same)........... so chances of awareness is slim, I'm in Wales and have seen no such message. The manatra has always been "HI, table to get CH, then shoes and socks off to work out PH" Then folk focus solely on the Ph. (I'll test this on my 4 ball in the morning and I bet none of them know that net double-bogeys adjustments are based on CH. ) Folk still focus on the "do I get a shot here (in the comp) or not??"

Every day us a school day
I'm getting sick and tired of asking people what their course handicap is. You usually get an answer, but then you usually need to prolong the discussion to determine what handicap they are actually giving you. More often than not, they are telling you their Playing Handicap. I don't think any are aware that the course handicap is the one that is required under the rules, and the chances they know they should use their course handicap when deciding whether to pick up or not is remote.
 

jim8flog

Journeyman Pro
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
10,305
Location
Yeovil
I'm getting sick and tired of asking people what their course handicap is. You usually get an answer, but then you usually need to prolong the discussion to determine what handicap they are actually giving you. More often than not, they are telling you their Playing Handicap. I don't think any are aware that the course handicap is the one that is required under the rules, and the chances they know they should use their course handicap when deciding whether to pick up or not is remote.
To me what I find irritating is that in Stableford Comps (the most common form of competition play here) far too many are obsessed by their points instead of their gross score and many want to check the points rather than the gross scores. I totally agree with you last sentence and wonder how many pick up
too early thereby affecting their Handicap Index calculation.
 

Swango1980

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
2,883
To me what I find irritating is that in Stableford Comps (the most common form of competition play here) far too many are obsessed by their points instead of their gross score and many want to check the points rather than the gross scores. I totally agree with you last sentence and wonder how many pick up
too early thereby affecting their Handicap Index calculation.
If you're playing in a competition, then it is more than likely you are a competitive golfer. If you have that drive, then it makes sense that you'll focus on the handicap that counts for your result. Ironically, the ones more likely to be focused on their handicap (wanting to keep it low) are the single figure handicappers, and their course and playing handicaps are the same anyway, so doesn't really matter,
 

rulefan

Tour Winner
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
10,924
The Australians put it slightly differently but it comes to the same thing:
The result of the calculation is rounded to the nearest whole number..
Isn't the result of the calculation the 'Daily Handicap'? Subsequently a Handicap Allowance is applied (if appropriate) to the rounded DH.
 

clubchamp98

Journeyman Pro
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
10,575
Location
Liverpool
If you're playing in a competition, then it is more than likely you are a competitive golfer. If you have that drive, then it makes sense that you'll focus on the handicap that counts for your result. Ironically, the ones more likely to be focused on their handicap (wanting to keep it low) are the single figure handicappers, and their course and playing handicaps are the same anyway, so doesn't really matter,
Mines not.
I am6.4 playing off 7.
 

ger147

Tour Winner
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
4,662
Location
Cumbernauld
The reality is that when 4 golfers get together for a friendly fourball they use their rounded course handicap. Exact values are for machines to deal with. and the reality is that for that friendly match it doesn't matter a jot.
That might be your reality, it's not the reality around here.
 
Joined
Jun 10, 2021
Messages
443
If you're playing in a competition, then it is more than likely you are a competitive golfer. If you have that drive, then it makes sense that you'll focus on the handicap that counts for your result. Ironically, the ones more likely to be focused on their handicap (wanting to keep it low) are the single figure handicappers, and their course and playing handicaps are the same anyway, so doesn't really matter,
That's absolutely not the case, it's almost as likely to be one shot different as it is the same. A 7.8 CH plays off 7, a 5.7CH plays off 5 for eg
 

Colin L

Tour Winner
Joined
May 26, 2012
Messages
4,230
Location
Edinburgh
The reality is that when 4 golfers get together for a friendly fourball they use their rounded course handicap. Exact values are for machines to deal with. and the reality is that for that friendly match it doesn't matter a jot.
It seems in deference to golfers in Cumbernauld and all who are straining their mental arithmetic powers, I should rephrase that:

The reality is that when 4 golfers get together for a friendly fourball they should just use their rounded course handicap. Exact values are for machines to deal with and the reality is that for that friendly match it doesn't matter a jot.

The basis for that advice is in the CONGU advice document:
For other National Associations, the Course Handicap used in the Playing Handicap calculation will be the full calculated CH value, as it is expected that the player will always have ready access to an App or other software to generate the Course Handicap rather than be expected to perform the Playing Handicap calculation themselves.

I must say that expectation seems unduly optimistic, unrealistic even but that's not the point. I think it is entirely reasonable to infer from this that if players do not on occasion have ready access to an app or other software, they can't be expected to use the exact value of their course handicap. For example, for a seniors match against another club we prepare a team sheet with playing handicaps, calculated on a spreadsheet, noted on it. When the same people roll up for a bounce fourball, they will take the differences amongst their course handicaps from the back marker as shown on the tables or on their SG app and get on with the familiar 90% of the differences (and yes I know that's no longer how they should do it).

The world won't end; the sky won't fall down; and Scottish Golf won't be sending round the heavies to knock them into line.
 

ger147

Tour Winner
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
4,662
Location
Cumbernauld
It seems in deference to golfers in Cumbernauld and all who are straining their mental arithmetic powers, I should rephrase that:

The reality is that when 4 golfers get together for a friendly fourball they should just use their rounded course handicap. Exact values are for machines to deal with and the reality is that for that friendly match it doesn't matter a jot.

The basis for that advice is in the CONGU advice document:
For other National Associations, the Course Handicap used in the Playing Handicap calculation will be the full calculated CH value, as it is expected that the player will always have ready access to an App or other software to generate the Course Handicap rather than be expected to perform the Playing Handicap calculation themselves.

I must say that expectation seems unduly optimistic, unrealistic even but that's not the point. I think it is entirely reasonable to infer from this that if players do not on occasion have ready access to an app or other software, they can't be expected to use the exact value of their course handicap. For example, for a seniors match against another club we prepare a team sheet with playing handicaps, calculated on a spreadsheet, noted on it. When the same people roll up for a bounce fourball, they will take the differences amongst their course handicaps from the back marker as shown on the tables or on their SG app and get on with the familiar 90% of the differences (and yes I know that's no longer how they should do it).

The world won't end; the sky won't fall down; and Scottish Golf won't be sending round the heavies to knock them into line.
What is happening in my experience is most folk are using either their playing handicaps from individaul comps or the differences between the indexes. I haven't yet encountered anyone using rounded CH values from the charts as a basis to work anything out.

I have been asked on more than one occasion on the first tee what the proper playing handicaps should be and could I work everything out for everyone but have always politely declined, usually because early on a Saturday morning, the last thing the queue of players wants to watch on the tee is me on my mobile phone calculator app.
 
Top