World Handicap System

rulefan said:
I don't know who supplied your boards but certainly the major suppliers knew.
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*our*

I guess like said above, they didn't grasp it, like we didn't. Not one club is showing a decimal calculation for course handicap that I've yet seen.
 
Banchory Buddha said:
Yup, and I've said for years now there was nothing wrong with the old system, just the course ratings.

Should have sent out a range of mid-handicaps to course rate. Call it the SDS if they like (Standard Duffer Score), but to base course ratings on guys who will take out a 5 iron off the tee on mid-length par 4s was always ludicrous. That was the issue, not the handicap system.
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It wasn't course rating per se. Apart from the England Golf Union (as was) all CONGU unions and associations have used the USGA course rating system for at least the last 12 years. It was CONGU's failure to take on slope.
 
Banchory Buddha said:
*our*

I guess like said above, they didn't grasp it, like we didn't. Not one club is showing a decimal calculation for course handicap that I've yet seen.
Click to expand...

To be honest though....it is utterly impractical to produce a lookup table that shows CH to even 1 decimal place....it would pretty much have a line in the table for each Index....they wouldn't be able to be grouped to show 3.1 to 4.2 = 4 for example. Never understood as an outsider looking in, why Scottish Golf went this way.

Maybe someone just decided that the computers would sort everything out and the players/committees wouldn't need to worry about it. ;)
 
Banchory Buddha said:
Yup, and I've said for years now there was nothing wrong with the old system, just the course ratings.

Should have sent out a range of mid-handicaps to course rate. Call it the SDS if they like (Standard Duffer Score), but to base course ratings on guys who will take out a 5 iron off the tee on mid-length par 4s was always ludicrous. That was the issue, not the handicap system.
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You are of course describing the Bogey Rating, which is a key component of the Course and Slope Rating system.

It should be noted, that if you created a system based exclusively on the good score for a bogey golfer, you'd have a system even more skewed than the one we had that was based exclusively on the good score for a scratch golfer.
 
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Banchory Buddha said:
*our*

I guess like said above, they didn't grasp it, like we didn't. Not one club is showing a decimal calculation for course handicap that I've yet seen.
Click to expand...
That is as it should be. Course Handicap boards should not show decimals - how would that even work?! You'd need a table with about 600 lines on it. The earlier implication was that you had Playing Handicap boards that had not been calculated correctly - are we to understand that this is not the case?
 
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Banchory Buddha said:
Yes really. Nobody clicked what that meant, it was a new system you see? You'll see every course in Scotland (at least those I've played this year which is quite a few) have done the same as us. Because as you'll appreciate, the noise was loud on the changes, and as Scotland were diverging from the rest, the noise drowned out any message from Scottish Golf (from memory, nothing).
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The constant girning about this is not only tiresome but mistaken. Scotland alone of the CONGU countries is correctly following the WHS rules regarding the calculation of playing handicaps. Rule 61.b in the CONGU issue of the Rules of Handicapping is explicit in the part I've put in bold red:

Note: The calculated 18-hole and 9-hole Course Handicap is rounded to the nearest whole number, with .5 rounded upwards, for the purpose of:
Applying adjustments for maximum hole score (see Rule3.1) and when a hole is not played (see Rule 3.2).
Where applicable, calculating a Score Differential.
Otherwise, the full calculated value is retained and rounding occurs only after the Playing Handicap calculation.

And, surprise, surprise, guess what 6.1b in the USGA issue of the Rules of Handicapping states. YOu're probably ahead of me. It says
Otherwise, the full calculated value is retained and rounding occurs only after the Playing Handicap calculation.

The Australians put it slightly differently but it comes to the same thing:
The result of the calculation is rounded to the nearest whole number.

If you want to blame anyone for your club's getting the wrong course handicap charts, try blaming your supplier for perhaps not knowing that Banchory is in Scotland or the other CONGU countries for diverging from the worldwide rules and confusing the issue.
 
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rulefan said:
It wasn't course rating per se. Apart from the England Golf Union (as was) all CONGU unions and associations have used the USGA course rating system for at least the last 12 years. It was CONGU's failure to take on slope.
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No it wasn't, SSS course ratings were all over the shop, clear discrepancies, because as you said it was down to how a scratch player would play the course that determined what your handicap was based upon.
 
nickjdavis said:
To be honest though....it is utterly impractical to produce a lookup table that shows CH to even 1 decimal place....it would pretty much have a line in the table for each Index....they wouldn't be able to be grouped to show 3.1 to 4.2 = 4 for example. Never understood as an outsider looking in, why Scottish Golf went this way.

Maybe someone just decided that the computers would sort everything out and the players/committees wouldn't need to worry about it. ;)
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You're spot on, but what it's done instead is confuse most players because they look at the boards and think that's their course handicap. Total waste of money, and thoroughly counter-productive.
 
wjemather said:
That is as it should be. Course Handicap boards should not show decimals - how would that even work?! You'd need a table with about 600 lines on it. The earlier implication was that you had Playing Handicap boards that had not been calculated correctly - are we to understand that this is not the case?
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No, Course Handicap boards, which only show a rounded course handicap. I made no mention of playing handicap boards, no such thing exists anywhere afaik
 
wjemather said:
You are of course describing the Bogey Rating, which is a key component of the Course and Slope Rating system.

It should be noted, that if you created a system based exclusively on the good score for a bogey golfer, you'd have a system even more skewed than the one we had that was based exclusively on the good score for a scratch golfer.
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Even more skewed? Seeing as far more people play bogey golf than scratch golf, I'd ask how you come to that conclusion?
 
Banchory Buddha said:
Even more skewed? Seeing as far more people play bogey golf than scratch golf, I'd ask how you come to that conclusion?
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The relative inconsistency of the bogey golfer and increased variance in their skillset means that bogey ratings have a much wider margin for error than course ratings that are based on a much more consistent and less variable skillset of a scratch golfer. Note: the definition of a bogey golfer has a handicap range of about 4 strokes.

The effect of the margin for error in the baseline rating increases as you move away from the 20-24 handicap range, resulting in a system than is very badly skewed for low handicappers in particular.
 
wjemather said:
They do, and this is what was being referred to in the comment you replied to (#1,121, and clarified in #1,130).
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I don't know what point Banchory Buddha was making, but from my own point of view at my own club in Scotland, the course handicap boards are confusing and unhelpful as the rounded course handicaps provided cannot be used to work out your playing handicaps for whatever format of golf you are playing on any given day as the unrounded CH has to be used in Scotland as you know, which is not what is shown on the boards.

It makes no difference to official comps as the app or PSI tells you your PH when you sign in to an official comp, but for unofficial friendly golf e.g. a 4BBB with 3 friends, using the boards to look up your CH and from that calculate your PH can and does yield incorrect answers and therefore in Scotland, I find them unhelpful and would prefer they weren't on display.
 
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