World Handicap System

[rosecott]

Rule 7.2b empowers a Committee, subject to the agreement of the National Association, to suspend the submission of scores for handicapping purposes if it considers course conditions to be exceptionally poor. There are Local Rules that can be implemented in mitigation to enable the posting of Acceptable Scores to continue and these are detailed in Appendix H.

 

[upsidedown]

22 under?!

Not quite, my mistake was a Medal so just the 13 under ?

 

[SammmeBee]

Not quite, my mistake was a Medal so just the 13 under ?

Oh that’s more than ok the !! ?

 

[3offTheTee]

Not quite, my mistake was a Medal so just the 13 under ?

Following your other post re 5 scores our Club hve introduced a rule for a player to win The Trophy they have to have had 12 qualifying scores submitted

 

[upsidedown]

Following your other post re 5 scores our Club hve introduced a rule for a player to win The Trophy they have to have had 12 qualifying scores submitted

That sounds a very good idea, have mentioned it to our Match sec

 

[Old Skier]

Following your other post re 5 scores our Club hve introduced a rule for a player to win The Trophy they have to have had 12 qualifying scores submitted

Over what period of time.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

The R&A, CONGU & Scottish Golf seem to think it's reasonable.

And clubs and players do not. Wonder why eh?

Again, I'm not too sure that someone based in a place where a winter's day would be a summers day in Aberdeenshire can really comment with any authority on the matter, but you do you.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

I think wherever you are in winter it is going to be the same.

If you have a severely shortened course due to temporary tees that will be reflected in the Course Rating and Slope rating when you get the course measured and if you have to have more than 2 temp greens the comp becomes non qualifying anyway.

Hardly. Lack of distance due to cold, lack or run, courses play much longer in winter. We have no winter greens, only open or closed.

I played year round while living in the isle of Man, never gave it a second thought, often t-shirt weather in December or January, to say that is anything like north Scotland is completely detached from reality.

 

[DickInShorts]

I think wherever you are in winter it is going to be the same.

If you have a severely shortened course due to temporary tees that will be reflected in the Course Rating and Slope rating when you get the course measured and if you have to have more than 2 temp greens the comp becomes non qualifying anyway.

So if we have 18 winter greens for 3 months how can that be in accordance with WHS?

 

[Swango1980]

So if we have 18 winter greens for 3 months how can that be in accordance with WHS?

It isn't. Who said it was? Did jim not specifically say if you have more than 2, it is non qualifying (non-acceptable)

 

[rulefan]

So if we have 18 winter greens for 3 months how can that be in accordance with WHS?

This is what CONGU has to say:
2.1/3 empowers an Authorized Association to determine the circumstances under which temporary course conditions are acceptable for handicapping purposes.
In this context CONGU® directs that scores are acceptable for handicapping purposes if:
• No more than two temporary greens are in play for an 18-hole round; or
• Only one temporary green is in play for a 9-hole round.
Temporary or alternative tees are acceptable for handicapping purposes but whenever the length of the course has been increased or decreased by virtue of the use of temporary greens and/or tees by more than 100 yards for an 18-hole round or 50 yards for a 9-hole round, the adjustments to the Course Rating and Slope Rating set out in Appendix G of the Rules of Handicapping must be applied. I
n addition, an Authorized Association is expected to determine the eligible period when preferred lies may be in operation for acceptable scores to be posted. Guidance on the Local Rules required when adverse course conditions prevail can be found in the Rules of Golf and this is covered in more detail in Appendix H of this document.

 

[wjemather]

And clubs and players do not. Wonder why eh?

Again, I'm not too sure that someone based in a place where a winter's day would be a summers day in Aberdeenshire can really comment with any authority on the matter, but you do you.

Lack of knowledge and resistance to change.

You also have zero knowledge of my residences other than the Bristol area currently, so your commentary on my personal experiences of climate around the British Isles is misguided at best.

Hardly. Lack of distance due to cold, lack or run, courses play much longer in winter. We have no winter greens, only open or closed.

WHS takes account of playing conditions through accurate course ratings and the PCC. As such, if you are on proper greens and the course is setup within WHS parameters, there is no reason for scores not to be acceptable.

 

[wjemather]

So if we have 18 winter greens for 3 months how can that be in accordance with WHS?

Please clarify if they are winter greens (i.e. greens that are used throughout the winter that meet all rules) or temporary greens (that are used on an ad-hoc basis).

 

[Banchory Buddha]

Lack of knowledge and resistance to change.

You also have zero knowledge of my residences other than the Bristol area currently, so your commentary on my personal experiences of climate around the British Isles is misguided at best.

Where did you live in Scotland?

WHS takes account of playing conditions through accurate course ratings and the PCC. As such, if you are on proper greens and the course is setup within WHS parameters, there is no reason for scores not to be acceptable.

We'll see, but so far I've seen the PCC move zero times at my club, whereas CSS moved over half the time. I'd suggest the PCC is not a good variable at all.

 

[Swango1980]

Hardly. Lack of distance due to cold, lack or run, courses play much longer in winter. We have no winter greens, only open or closed.

I played year round while living in the isle of Man, never gave it a second thought, often t-shirt weather in December or January, to say that is anything like north Scotland is completely detached from reality.

PCC should take into account course conditions.

It is true that courses play longer in winter, so can make it tougher. On the flip side, it some respects can make it easier. Balls don't fly as far / stop quicker, and so do not reach the high rough or trees if the player is offline. Players can get away with being more offline than they can in the summer, when it is hot and fairways are bone dry (the professionals always fine courses tougher when they firm up). Furthermore, even if players do reach the rough in the winter, it is usually findable and not too bad. Whereas from Spring onwards, the rough can be deep and lush, with reduced chance of finding your ball, or much more difficult to get decent contact on the ball.

 

[D-S]

It seems that PCC does not kick in half as often as CSS. As far as I am aware their purpose is much the same, i.e. to take account of weather/course difficulties so as to make the adjust the score recorded to better reflect the ability needed to shoot a particular number.

This leads to one question - which does/did the job most accurately?

Perhaps the CSS was too sensitive - though certainly not my experience. If this 'insensitivity' of PCC remains the case then is there a mechanism for adjusting it in future?

 

[Banchory Buddha]

PCC should take into account course conditions.

As above, and as D-S also says, it's clearly not. Not once this year has our course had a PCC change, and conditions have varied wildly.

 

[Swango1980]

As above, and as D-S also says, it's clearly not. Not once this year has our course had a PCC change, and conditions have varied wildly.

I did say "should". I can't guarantee it DOES, given I also have no idea how it works, and the fact it does not seem to change anywhere near as much as CSS did. I'd like the handicap authorities to explain how it actually works, rather than expect us to have blind faith in it.

However, as I said, the purpose of it is that it SHOULD account for conditions. If it doesn't, then that flaw needs to be addressed.

 

[rulefan]

It should be remembered that the PCC formula is nothing like the CSS tables.

5.6/1 – Procedure for Performing Playing Conditions Calculation
The playing conditions calculation (PCC) will be an automatic calculation and can
be summarized as follows:
1. Calculate the expected score for each eligible player.
2. Calculate the expected standard deviation of Score Differentials at the golf
course, incorporating all applicable Slope Ratings.
3. Establish how many players scored better or worse than expected on the
day.
4. The proportion of players submitting a score equal to, better than or worse
than their expected scoring range determines whether a PCC adjustment is
required.
5. If an adjustment is required, determine how much harder or easier the golf
course played that day.

 

[Colin L]

I referred to it and Rulefan has quoted info relating to it. Do have a look at Appendix G of the WHS Rules and consider whether altering Course and Slope Ratings can help with your ccircumstances.