World Handicap System

[Colin L]

On the part in bold, it's playing a large factor I'd suggest, OCS (for Scottish Golf) appear to be nowhere near up to the task of building this system, whether that's due to not understanding golf, or just not being a very good software provider, who knows, but our last medal we had a third of the field could not verify their scores at the end of the round (the worst so far), folks are pretty fed up of it, after the simplicity of the HDID software, two years of Beta testing and 3 months into the competitive season and it's getting worse not better.

RE: a) I absolutely hate the slope system, it's just a fancy SSS, if the SSS had been more accurate then folks handicaps would be more closely aligned, and of course it's horses for courses, some people just play some courses better than others. People want to know 'my handicap is "x" ' , not 'my handicap is 4 here, 6 there, and 5 somewhere else'
RE b) Yes that's fair comment I think, but that could have been addressed within the existing system, there was no reason to stick to +0.1 all the time

I suspect that's two things that are affecting your view of the handicapping system - serious problems with the VMS software which has nothing to do with the actual handicapping system and the misunderstanding of slope rating which wjemather has explained above. Slope rating is fundamental to the system and is well proven, having been use now for I think well over 30 years in much of the rest of the world. It is what makes it possible for us to get the number of strokes we need for a particular course and for handicap indexes to be related to a common, standard course, thus making them comparable across the world. The CONGU system did neither of these things. In what way did that make it better?

While the transition at my own club was far from trouble free and much work had to be done in conjunction with ClubV1 it has now settled down and weekly comps come and go without apparent problems and my previously bulging inbox has received two emails in the last fortnight. Most of the problems with the Scottish Golf app were down to user unfamiliarity or error.

 

[BiMGuy]

Does nobody else just go out and try and shoot their best score, and not worry about their handicap?

 

[Colin L]

Does nobody else just go out and try and shoot their best score, and not worry about their handicap?

The many I know of don't frequent rules forums.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I would only comment that the current HI of the majority of the players who compete in club competitions are regularly more competitive under WHS than the old system.

A large proportion have adopted the philosophy of putting General Play cards in as well as competition cards and many now have playing records comprising 20 scores since LD3.

We are also seeing a downward trend in scores as the weather improves which impacts HI quickly as I expect to see them go up in the Winter as conditions worsen.

Are there problems with the system and the ISVs - yes of course. I think the system of HI/CH/PH is complex as is PCC but increasingly I try to encourage people to play their best golf, as often as possible and trust the system to reflect their current ability.

 

[badgergm]

I would only comment that the current HI of the majority of the players who compete in club competitions are regularly more competitive under WHS than the old system.

A large proportion have adopted the philosophy of putting General Play cards in as well as competition cards and many now have playing records comprising 20 scores since LD3.

We are also seeing a downward trend in scores as the weather improves which impacts HI quickly as I expect to see them go up in the Winter as conditions worsen.

Are there problems with the system and the ISVs - yes of course. I think the system of HI/CH/PH is complex as is PCC but increasingly I try to encourage people to play their best golf, as often as possible and trust the system to reflect their current ability.

Why should indexes be impacted in that way by conditions? The whole point of PCC is that it takes that into account? Do you think it doesn’t do so adequately?

 

[badgergm]

I do wonder to what extent the kind of wholesale dismissal of the WHS has to do with the transitional problems we have been through and with the technological support for the system rather than the system itself which for the user is as simple as its predecessor: know your handicap, play golf, put scores in, check for changes in your handicap, play golf.....

What, for example, is so wrong with the two principal changes:
a) using slope ratings to give players a tailor-made handicap for a course which takes account of the relative difficulty of that course between the scratch player and the less proficient; and
b) using an averaging system intended to demonstrate actual playing ability rather than a ratchet system intended to demonstrate potential?

I don’t really get the insistence that the new system is really no more complicated than before. It clearly is. I genuinely think that many golfers will never understand it. Many will say that it doesn’t matter, the computer will do everything for them. But like it or not, many people liked the simplicity of knowing how their score would affect their handicap.

I have no objection on that count, and probably neutral overall. But i,m not conVincent about point b) above. Imdont see that it is inherently a better approach.

 

[3offTheTee]

There awe a few assumptions here so apologies. Some members have a HI now but have not played in a competition since WHS started.

1. Is there a period when their handicap lapses if they have not submitted a card for say 3 years?
2. What is the period when a handicap lapses if any?
3. If the handicap does lapse are there any options other than submitting 3 cards(54/holes)?

Thanks for any replies

 

[wjemather]

There awe a few assumptions here so apologies. Some members have a HI now but have not played in a competition since WHS started.

1. Is there a period when their handicap lapses if they have not submitted a card for say 3 years?
2. What is the period when a handicap lapses if any?
3. If the handicap does lapse are there any options other than submitting 3 cards(54/holes)?

Thanks for any replies

A WHS Handicap Index does not lapse; as long as someone is a member of an affiliated club or independent golfer scheme, their Handicap Index is valid regardless of the last time they entered a score. That being said, players have the responsibility to submit enough scores for their handicap to be reflective of their current ability, and failure to do so can result in suspension of handicap until such scores are submitted.

 

[3offTheTee]

A WHS Handicap Index does not lapse; as long as someone is a member of an affiliated club or independent golfer scheme, their Handicap Index is valid regardless of the last time they entered a score. That being said, players have the responsibility to submit enough scores for their handicap to be reflective of their current ability, and failure to do so can result in suspension of handicap until such scores are submitted.

Thanks for your reply which is appreciated


moving on there is a guy at our place aged 75 suffering with health, cannot play to his handicap because of his health issues. what are his options please?

Regarding your final sentence from a practical view how will this be policed please?

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Why should indexes be impacted in that way by conditions? The whole point of PCC is that it takes that into account? Do you think it doesn’t do so adequately?

PCC is a mystery to me so I can't comment on the impact. The authorities haven't published the algorithm so I see the ODD PCC being allocated where there are sufficient acceptable rounds but if there are only a few players on a particular day it's irrelevant.

My point is more basic. Course and slope ratings don't change throughout the year but conditions do. At the moment there is good run on the fairways, the greens are fast and true and usually there is less wind and rain. Compare that to winter when the opposite is true and the average player will score better in summer than winter.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Thanks for your reply which is appreciated


moving on there is a guy at our place aged 75 suffering with health, cannot play to his handicap because of his health issues. what are his options please?

Regarding your final sentence from a practical view how will this be policed please?

The Handicap Committee at the club still have an option to review handicaps and in the case of illness or infirmity can increase a HI by up to 5 shots without referral to the County.

 

[wjemather]

Thanks for your reply which is appreciated

moving on there is a guy at our place aged 75 suffering with health, cannot play to his handicap because of his health issues. what are his options please?

Regarding your final sentence from a practical view how will this be policed please?

I would suggest he put some scores in to demonstrate his current ability, and request his committee conduct a review with a view to applying a temporary or permanent adjustment.

The hope is that the systems will soon provide adequate reporting for committees to be able to fulfil their responsibilities.

 

[clubchamp98]

PCC is a mystery to me so I can't comment on the impact. The authorities haven't published the algorithm so I see the ODD PCC being allocated where there are sufficient acceptable rounds but if there are only a few players on a particular day it's irrelevant.

My point is more basic. Course and slope ratings don't change throughout the year but conditions do. At the moment there is good run on the fairways, the greens are fast and true and usually there is less wind and rain. Compare that to winter when the opposite is true and the average player will score better in summer than winter.

Depends how your course is set up in winter.
Ours is 1000yds shorter no rough and the greens are receptive and slow down a lot.
No bad bounces from rock hard fairways , it becomes horses for courses.
Plus some people ( me ) just don’t like the heat.

Ours normally has preffered lies in the general area ,
But that means non Q .or will this have to change to cut areas only.?

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Depends how your course is set up in winter.
Ours is 1000yds shorter no rough and the greens are receptive and slow down a lot.
No bad bounces from rock hard fairways , it becomes horses for courses.
Plus some people ( me ) just don’t like the heat.

Ours normally has preffered lies in the general area ,
But that means non Q .or will this have to change to cut areas only.?

So you don't have any handicap changes for several months of the year? Not sure that was what was intended with the introduction of WHS but to each their own.

 

[clubchamp98]

So you don't have any handicap changes for several months of the year? Not sure that was what was intended with the introduction of WHS but to each their own.

It’s just a consequence imo.
Different parts of the world vary so much to have all year round play.
Take Canada they don’t play for long periods in winter.
It will be up to the individual clubs to set the terms of the competition, but mine will have to change from the norm to have qualifying comps.
Or they might just let the handicap sec have a rest.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

So you don't have any handicap changes for several months of the year? Not sure that was what was intended with the introduction of WHS but to each their own.

No it wasn't the intention, but as many many folks said at the time, that's utter nonsense for a country like Scotland. We're not California where you can play the same conditions in July as you can in January. If the PCC worked properly (and it clearly doesn't) and there was the potential of 'reduction only' days like in the old sytstem, then fair enough, but what will happen now is those courses that can run full course in winter will have members boing up over winter and smacking down in summer once their handicap catches up with them.

In reality though, that's more likely to mean just as all those low scores start to bite, you'll hit winter and be playing off too low a handicap, which will rise just in time for the summer season when it will be too high.

 

[jim8flog]

. I genuinely think that many golfers will never understand it. .

Just as many never understood the UHS.

Even now many players insist that 36 points is playing to handicap. How many knew about the need to self adjust when appropriate under the UHS?

It is very much like the Rules of Golf there are those that are willing to learn and those that are not, so no matter what the system the latter never will fully understand it.

 

[jim8flog]

Depends how your course is set up in winter.
Ours is 1000yds shorter no rough and the greens are receptive and slow down a lot.
No bad bounces from rock hard fairways , it becomes horses for courses.
Plus some people ( me ) just don’t like the heat.

Ours normally has preffered lies in the general area ,
But that means non Q .or will this have to change to cut areas only.?

Having lift clean and place in the rough Automatically makes it a NQ. If they had temporary areas of lift clean and replace they could be qualifiers.

I think historically there are many clubs that failed to embrace the recommendation not have to have non qualifiers for a set period of time and to rely upon the variable CSS which took care of poor conditions.

I would hate to play at a course that did not have qualifiers in the winter. We have a fair few non qualifiers but they are caused only when we have to move to temp greens mainly due to flooding.

 

[clubchamp98]

Having lift clean and place in the rough Automatically makes it a NQ. If they had temporary areas of lift clean and replace they could be qualifiers.

I think historically there are many clubs that failed to embrace the recommendation not have to have non qualifiers for a set period of time and to rely upon the variable CSS which took care of poor conditions.

I would hate to play at a course that did not have qualifiers in the winter. We have a fair few non qualifiers but they are caused only when we have to move to temp greens mainly due to flooding.

Yes the clubs will have to think their winter policies over a bit.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Looks like England Golf are advertising for a Course Rating Coordinator......

Bit late in the day?