World Handicap System

Old Skier

Tour Winner
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
8,729
Location
Instow - play in North Devon
No I haven't but that article I linked to from England Golf states I can now use their app to pre register a casual round and it will count for handicapping so once my back it better I fully intend to do so 😉👍
Hopefully you’ll be back playing soon, before you play perhaps it might be worth while finding out how your club deals with the issue of casual cards both at home and away.
 

upsidedown

Tour Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
4,761
Location
Shropshire
Upsidedown, There is no mention in this article of the need for any interaction between the golfer and their home club. (or the club they visit) Have you actually used it at an away venue?
No but there has been reference by others on this forum that they have done so, some have had problems with signal which has caused some issues so not totally infallible
 

upsidedown

Tour Winner
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
4,761
Location
Shropshire
Hopefully you’ll be back playing soon, before you play perhaps it might be worth while finding out how your club deals with the issue of casual cards both at home and away.
Thanks the Naproxen should sort it out.
At home club use PSI or HDID app and away scores are to be done on EG app
 

rosecott

Money List Winner
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
7,030
Location
Notts
And what further checks were made by the away players home clubs to verify the verified scores of their players?
And what further checks do you deem necessary? An experienced low handicap player with a CDH ID pre-registers his round at the course he is about to play, identifies another experienced low handicap player with a CDH ID to attest his score. They both enter their scores after playing the round, the MyEG App contacts both players to verify the other player's score - job done. I don't have to get involved, their scores appear on WHS and we move on to the next event. I am not involved in the administration of the Winter Alliance so I do not know how the events were set up. All I know is that 2 of the 4 events since end of lockdown were processed via the host club's systems and the other 2 had players pre-registering and entering scores via the MyEG App.
 

Wabinez

Journeyman Pro
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
2,556
I do wonder if some clubs/committees are being deliberately obtuse with the submission of away scores.

the only time I contacted my club manager before a round was the day after the MyEG app updated and i said I was going to use the app, but if there were any issues I was going to do a paper card and email it across after. got a response of ‘no problems, we’ve been told it all works…it’ll be good to test it out’

since then, I have done another 3/4 rounds using the app, and not informed the club. No problems at all. System has updated within minutes after the round has finished. Golden.

next week will bring difficulties as I am playing in Scotland, so need to see how it pans out with submissions, but I imagine it will run smoothly.

for the questions about ‘pre-registering‘ there is a video on YouTube about the IG app, and they specifically state that when you go to start a round, THAT, is your declaration to score. It is timestamped etc, so the club can see it. the only reason I would see for going into a pro-shop to register is if you are playing outside your jurisdiction and there isn’t any tech that can help you with that. Yet.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2020
Messages
42
And what further checks do you deem necessary? An experienced low handicap player with a CDH ID pre-registers his round at the course he is about to play, identifies another experienced low handicap player with a CDH ID to attest his score. They both enter their scores after playing the round, the MyEG App contacts both players to verify the other player's score - job done. I don't have to get involved, their scores appear on WHS and we move on to the next event. I am not involved in the administration of the Winter Alliance so I do not know how the events were set up. All I know is that 2 of the 4 events since end of lockdown were processed via the host club's systems and the other 2 had players pre-registering and entering scores via the MyEG App.
If you have followed the thread correctly, you will realise my position is that no further checks are necessary. I am trying to establish exactly what the correct procedure is. It is another poster making the point that either home or away clubs should be involved in the process.
 

BTatHome

Tour Winner
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
4,073
Location
Hampshire
I think the My EG app is great, not had any issues with it at all. I think using a card at your home club is probably the issue that most people are having with "pre-registering", as they need a way to know that the card has been entered somewhere. As the app itself is effectively the pre-registration and its also the card, then everything is catered for (and confirmed via the England Golf FAQ, that you don't need to do either of them with your home club).

I'll be using the app as much as possible from now onwards. Love it!
 

Old Skier

Tour Winner
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
8,729
Location
Instow - play in North Devon
If you have followed the thread correctly, you will realise my position is that no further checks are necessary. I am trying to establish exactly what the correct procedure is. It is another poster making the point that either home or away clubs should be involved in the process.
I think you missed the point, I only mentioned our clubs procedures, other clubs are able to instigate their own providing they follow the rules of the WHS.
 

Old Skier

Tour Winner
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
8,729
Location
Instow - play in North Devon
Wabinez. Thank you for posting. this is exactly the confirmation I was looking for.
Unless @Wabinez is a member of your club he is unable to give you any confirmation unfortunately. You will have to go by whatever procedures your club choose to operat under that conform to the requirements of the WHS.

As to clubs and committees deliberately being obtrusive, most are run by volunteers who carry out their duties to the best of their ability within the advice of the county and the requirements of the laws of the game.

I'm not sure what position @Wabinez or a few of the others have within their clubs. I'm sure, like me, many would rather not be burdened with committee functions but unfortunately most club members would rather moan about the committees than volunteer their services.

Anyway, golf course calling, enjoy the rest of your day.
 

Wabinez

Journeyman Pro
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
2,556
Unless @Wabinez is a member of your club he is unable to give you any confirmation unfortunately. You will have to go by whatever procedures your club choose to operat under that conform to the requirements of the WHS.

As to clubs and committees deliberately being obtrusive, most are run by volunteers who carry out their duties to the best of their ability within the advice of the county and the requirements of the laws of the game.

I'm not sure what position @Wabinez or a few of the others have within their clubs. I'm sure, like me, many would rather not be burdened with committee functions but unfortunately most club members would rather moan about the committees than volunteer their services.

Anyway, golf course calling, enjoy the rest of your day.
I do volunteer at my club to assist where I can, or where the club wish to use my skills, but thanks for your thought process.

clubs, IMO, need to bring themselves forwards to the 21st century and relinquish control of some aspects to make things easier.…which is easier said than done unfortunately. Golf clubs seem to think that if they relax rules, they’ll be overrun with hordes of people either dressing in football shirts and jeans playing golf, or submitting hookie golf rounds to reduce their handicaps etc.
 

Swango1980

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
2,192
I do volunteer at my club to assist where I can, or where the club wish to use my skills, but thanks for your thought process.

clubs, IMO, need to bring themselves forwards to the 21st century and relinquish control of some aspects to make things easier.…which is easier said than done unfortunately. Golf clubs seem to think that if they relax rules, they’ll be overrun with hordes of people either dressing in football shirts and jeans playing golf, or submitting hookie golf rounds to reduce their handicaps etc.
To be fair, in the last 4 days I've had 2 players who pre-registered a few minutes before entering their score on howdidido.

One of the guys never plays in competitions, except he used to enter matchplay knockouts with his brother as his partner. He used to be known years ago for submitting only his low scores (before I was handicap sec), thus he was one of the lower handicappers at the club (almost within the old Cat 1). Having played with him, I would say his ability reflects more of a mid teens handicap than a 6 handicap.

He pre-registered at 07:44 and entered his score at 07:47. The score was 75, and his Index went from 6.7 to 5.something. I deleted the score, as it was clearly not pre-registered and strongly suspect he was trying to manipulate his handicap downwards (I can't imagine he finished his round at 07:40ish and then would argue he simply forgot to pre-register beforehand).

Anyway, these 2 issues have been identified over a period of 3 days, at a club that gets a reasonable amount of general play rounds, but I'm sure other clubs have many more. Before May, we had many rounds not pre-registered properly, and a few dozen No Returns from General Play. I gave members a period of grace, up until 1st May, to get used to the systems. However, on 1st May I sent out a general e-mail explaining why rounds must be pre-registered, and why scores must be returned.

So, I do have sympathy for Committee members. Of course all Committees are moving into the 21st century, I doubt any clubs are tracking handicaps like they would have done in the 1960's (long before my time). However, it is admirable that Committees are not blindly relying on the tech just yet. There have already been a plethora of issues since it was launched, and it takes time for Committees and golfers alike to get used to it. As soon as Committees become confident that scores going through MyEG and ISV's can be easily tracked, I am sure they will be only to happy to spend as little time as they need to in checking these scores, and letting the tech do pretty much most of the work.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
1,343
What happens if you don’t bother entering it, who knows, that action is the same as an NR.
The DotGolf WHS website shows a list of all players who have used the EG App to register their round and have not yet submitted a score. H'cap secs need to manually check this on a daily basis.

You cannot rely on your ISV software on its own anymore....the ISV s/ware does not know about pre-registered rounds via the EG App until a score is entered and the WHS adds the score to a players record. Likewise, I'm not yet convinced that a general play round registered using the ISV app (Masterscoreboard in our case) is known about by the DotGolf WHS system until a score is entered by the player.

Unfortunately it seems that neither your ISV software nor the EGApp update each other in respect of "registered intentions to submit scores"...its only when the scores have been submitted that the systems synchronise with each other.

You have to work using both systems at the moment to get an overall picture of what scores are outstanding and still need to be returned.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
1,343
He pre-registered at 07:44 and entered his score at 07:47. The score was 75, and his Index went from 6.7 to 5.something. I deleted the score, as it was clearly not pre-registered and strongly suspect he was trying to manipulate his handicap downwards (I can't imagine he finished his round at 07:40ish and then would argue he simply forgot to pre-register beforehand).
Masterscoreboard allows you to set a delay of say 3 hours between when a score intent was registered and when the score can actually be submitted. Surely HDID has a similar facility?

Did you not consider entering a penalty score into his record if you were suspicious of his motives? Whilst there has been a lot of rubbish spouted on these pages about throwing penalty scores around like confetti because players NR on a hole, forgot to hand in a card on one occasion out of twenty, etc etc etc, the case you quote does seem like something that would actually justify applying a penalty score.
 

Swango1980

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
2,192
The DotGolf WHS website shows a list of all players who have used the EG App to register their round and have not yet submitted a score. H'cap secs need to manually check this on a daily basis.

You cannot rely on your ISV software on its own anymore....the ISV s/ware does not know about pre-registered rounds via the EG App until a score is entered and the WHS adds the score to a players record. Likewise, I'm not yet convinced that a general play round registered using the ISV app (Masterscoreboard in our case) is known about by the DotGolf WHS system until a score is entered by the player.

Unfortunately it seems that neither your ISV software nor the EGApp update each other in respect of "registered intentions to submit scores"...its only when the scores have been submitted that the systems synchronise with each other.

You have to work using both systems at the moment to get an overall picture of what scores are outstanding and still need to be returned.
Yeah. I first check Club V1 for General Play scores entered through howdidido. I then separately go to the WHS Platform to check unsubmitted scores through MyEG. To clarify, I assume the easiest way to do this is:

Reports - Unsatisfied Score Intents

However, this then asks for the club, which by default is my own club. May have been asked elsewhere, but what if my club members did not return scores at AWAY courses? How do I find this without knowing they were going to play at that course? Perhaps this is what Old Skier is getting at?
 

Swango1980

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
2,192
Masterscoreboard allows you to set a delay of say 3 hours between when a score intent was registered and when the score can actually be submitted. Surely HDID has a similar facility?
It may do, but that will require the Owner administrative rights, so will check when at club. Mind you, in this particular case, all that would have done is have the guy pre-register, and then just wait a few hours and enter his score. I guess anyone could do that now, but if you allow people to enter their score immediately after pre-registering, it will at least highlight a few people who have acted incorrectly.

Technically, I'd really need the club to send me all their booked tee times, so I can actually see what time players were scheduled to play. But that would be a big effort, so I want to maintain some trust that members will generally act within the guidelines.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
1,343
Yeah. I first check Club V1 for General Play scores entered through howdidido. I then separately go to the WHS Platform to check unsubmitted scores through MyEG. To clarify, I assume the easiest way to do this is:

Reports - Unsatisfied Score Intents

However, this then asks for the club, which by default is my own club. May have been asked elsewhere, but what if my club members did not return scores at AWAY courses? How do I find this without knowing they were going to play at that course? Perhaps this is what Old Skier is getting at?
Yeah I see the problem....I've just registered to play a round at a course that is literally 1000yds from my home...will give it a while and see what pops up on the system(s) and see if I can find my intended round anywhere!!
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
1,343
OK....interesting....

When setting up my "away" round on the MyEG App it would not actually appear in the DotGolf WHS "unsatisfied score intents" until I pressed the "start round" button. But....it does appear... Screenshot 2021-05-05 111303.jpg
 
Last edited:
Top