World Handicap System (WHS)

[Rlburnside]

Simple. They haven't bothered to read the information the club has given them. Or the club hasn't bothered to send it out.

Yes your correct most will not have read all the information.

 

[Bwgan]

All you need is the Golf England App, no sheets required. You just need to apply the correct % for the game you are playing

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Thanks?

Happy to PM if required.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

All you need is the Golf England App, no sheets required. You just need to apply the correct % for the game you are playing

A sheet on the Club noticeboard as a ready reckoner does no harm either and is an easy reference for the technophobe or those without the app.

 

[Bwgan]

Definitely we have the same but we all make sure we check the app before we go out as your HI can move without you thinking it might (dropping a counting score etc.)

 

[Old Skier]

Yes that’s what I thought but it would have been good to have a better understanding of the new system from the outset.

That was up to your HC committee as they were given plenty of info and tools to support members.

 

[Old Skier]

Definitely we have the same but we all make sure we check the app before we go out as your HI can move without you thinking it might (dropping a counting score etc.)

It will only change if you have played a Q or entered a casual round so you will know when you should be checking for changes.

 

[Bwgan]

It will only change if you have played a Q or entered a casual round so you will know when you should be checking for changes.

Yep agreed, played on Wednesday got 33 points didn't think much about it. Had a look before i went out last night for our 1st round 4BBB KO and i had dropped 0.1 and put me in the next band below losing a shot. Lucky i checked!

 

[Swango1980]

Well, I've been playing in competitions for 16 years now, and today we had our first ever player to score 7 points on a hole. Eagled a par 5 and had 3 shots on the hole.

It is interesting to see the course handicaps player have who have won competitions since we returned from lockdown. They are:

27 (36 points)
39 (47 points)
29 (Nett 64)
24 (Nett 62)
28 (Nett 66)
18 (Nett 70)
27 (Nett 68)
42 (44 points)
39 (46 points)

So, the average course handicap of competition winners in the 9 comps so far is 30.3 (an index of around 25.8), with some big scores. To put that in perspective, we have very few players at all with a course handicap over 30 (third last comp of 32 players there were none). Winners have generally been new members who handed in 3 bad cards for initial handicap, but are now much better than they were when they started. WHS seems to be incredibly generous awarding initial handicaps to higher handicap players. After all, it takes the best score differential and then subtracts 2.0. However, subtracting 2.0 whose best card was level par has a significantly higher impact on them than it does on subtracting 2.0 whose best card was 30 over. We have just given a first handicap to a chap whose 3 adjusted gross scores were 117, 123 and 113. His Index is 38.2, and course handicap 45. I dread to think what score he could get in competition once he practices a bit.

In my opinion, the system seems to be a bit of a joke when you talk about fairness. Most of the low handicappers at our club (by low, I mean anyone pretty much under 20) do not see fairness in any way, shape or form. I'd like to think it will settle down when these new player handicaps settle down. But, there will always be new players to the game. I would have thought the initial handicap awarded could be a bit more punishing the higher the scores a player submitted, rather than just a blanket -2.0 subtraction.

 

[Troymcclure]

Happy to PM if required.

View attachment 36403

Do the columns have headers saying when to apply said allowances? Isn’t matchplay (90%) more commonly played than medal/stableford (85%) in fourball scenarios?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Do the columns have headers saying when to apply said allowances? Isn’t matchplay (90%) more commonly played than medal/stableford (85%) in fourball scenarios?

No. We have Competitions every weekend the Course is open, the Comp committee try to alternate, 1 Ind Strokeplay Comp and 1 4BBB Comp every weekend.

We only have 1 Matchplay comp in the fixture list, which is midweek, and the rules, table for that are on a seperate board.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Our place has 2 charts on the wall by the first tee, first one gives you your course h/c from your handicap index for what tee you’re playing off, the 2nd lists what 95% of course h/c for single strokeplay comps is and what 85% of course h/c is for 4BBB comps is.

Takes 5 seconds and is very helpful, might be worth suggesting the 2nd list to your Club if they don’t have one.

I believe every Club has the first chart.

My club had the table of HI to CH conversion for all tees fixed to clubhouse wall as we pass to 1st tee.

I have also printed off the table of Handicap allowances for different formats that the club has on the website and it is in my bag for reference as and when required.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It all seems a confused mess to me, think I’ll just put my course h/c on card and forget about the rest.

I think it might get harder or more confusing for me if I start playing lots of different formats at lots of different clubs. At the moment that is not the case. I play singles strokeplay and matchplay and 4BBB matchplay at my own club - and that’s it. So I know all I need to know about my CHs and PHs.

 

[jim8flog]

Now I’m confused we played our first medal and looked at the sheet to see my h/c which was 17 when the results were published I was allocated 16 h/c.

Now I know there is a 95% calculation in there but what about putting and signing for a 17 h/c on my card when the results say I was 16 h/c??‍

The current requirement is to have the correct Course Handicap on the card putting the Playing Handicap on the card is optional. We use IG and the results always show Playing Handicap

 

[jim8flog]

Depends on the Card at the Club I suppose, we plan to have boxes with CH and PH on them, just like we have Handicap and Strokes Received boxes on our current (old) cards which we are using until they run out.

The recommendation is to have a box for all 3 handicaps on the card.

It is possible that what is required on the card may change and it could become H.I.

Reference the latest directive from The R&A that says the National Authority can determine what handicap must be on the card to comply with 3.3b

 

[Bdill93]

Well, I've been playing in competitions for 16 years now, and today we had our first ever player to score 7 points on a hole. Eagled a par 5 and had 3 shots on the hole.

It is interesting to see the course handicaps player have who have won competitions since we returned from lockdown. They are:

27 (36 points)
39 (47 points)
29 (Nett 64)
24 (Nett 62)
28 (Nett 66)
18 (Nett 70)
27 (Nett 68)
42 (44 points)
39 (46 points)

So, the average course handicap of competition winners in the 9 comps so far is 30.3 (an index of around 25.8), with some big scores. To put that in perspective, we have very few players at all with a course handicap over 30 (third last comp of 32 players there were none). Winners have generally been new members who handed in 3 bad cards for initial handicap, but are now much better than they were when they started. WHS seems to be incredibly generous awarding initial handicaps to higher handicap players. After all, it takes the best score differential and then subtracts 2.0. However, subtracting 2.0 whose best card was level par has a significantly higher impact on them than it does on subtracting 2.0 whose best card was 30 over. We have just given a first handicap to a chap whose 3 adjusted gross scores were 117, 123 and 113. His Index is 38.2, and course handicap 45. I dread to think what score he could get in competition once he practices a bit.

In my opinion, the system seems to be a bit of a joke when you talk about fairness. Most of the low handicappers at our club (by low, I mean anyone pretty much under 20) do not see fairness in any way, shape or form. I'd like to think it will settle down when these new player handicaps settle down. But, there will always be new players to the game. I would have thought the initial handicap awarded could be a bit more punishing the higher the scores a player submitted, rather than just a blanket -2.0 subtraction.

Not sure how feesible it is for your club - but maybe comps could be split into divisions?

A club by me have massive membership numbers and have done this - my club would never! - but it does stop a high handicapper running away with the comp with 42+ points.

 

[jim8flog]

Well, I've been playing in competitions for 16 years now, and today we had our first ever player to score 7 points on a hole. Eagled a par 5 and had 3 shots on the hole.

It is interesting to see the course handicaps player have who have won competitions since we returned from lockdown. They are:

27 (36 points)
39 (47 points)
29 (Nett 64)
24 (Nett 62)
28 (Nett 66)
18 (Nett 70)
27 (Nett 68)
42 (44 points)
39 (46 points)

So, the average course handicap of competition winners in the 9 comps so far is 30.3 (an index of around 25.8), with some big scores. To put that in perspective, we have very few players at all with a course handicap over 30 (third last comp of 32 players there were none). Winners have generally been new members who handed in 3 bad cards for initial handicap, but are now much better than they were when they started. WHS seems to be incredibly generous awarding initial handicaps to higher handicap players. After all, it takes the best score differential and then subtracts 2.0. However, subtracting 2.0 whose best card was level par has a significantly higher impact on them than it does on subtracting 2.0 whose best card was 30 over. We have just given a first handicap to a chap whose 3 adjusted gross scores were 117, 123 and 113. His Index is 38.2, and course handicap 45. I dread to think what score he could get in competition once he practices a bit.

In my opinion, the system seems to be a bit of a joke when you talk about fairness. Most of the low handicappers at our club (by low, I mean anyone pretty much under 20) do not see fairness in any way, shape or form. I'd like to think it will settle down when these new player handicaps settle down. But, there will always be new players to the game. I would have thought the initial handicap awarded could be a bit more punishing the higher the scores a player submitted, rather than just a blanket -2.0 subtraction.

Does your club not have Divisions?

Initial Handicaps prior to the WHS were approximately 90% of the best score so not a lot of difference to current system. The big advantage of the current system is that an improving player will get adjusted more quickly without the committee needing to do it. Pre WHS a lot of newly handicapped players tended to win where I play.

 

[jim8flog]

Do the columns have headers saying when to apply said allowances? Isn’t matchplay (90%) more commonly played than medal/stableford (85%) in fourball scenarios?

If you club buys the Eagle golf board it is all on there and is posted next to the slope board. Sadly my photo of said board is to big to post on here

There is a picture of it on their homepage

https://www.eagle.uk.com/

 

[Swango1980]

Does your club not have Divisions?

Initial Handicaps prior to the WHS were approximately 90% of the best score so not a lot of difference to current system. The big advantage of the current system is that an improving player will get adjusted more quickly without the committee needing to do it. Pre WHS a lot of newly handicapped players tended to win where I play.

We have divisions for monthly medals. However, it begs the question, if we need to set up divisions to protect lower handicappers from the big scores of high handicappers, how fair is the system? I always had a hunch that, for any system, maybe the initial handicap of any player should err on the lower side rather than higher side in comparison to the initial handicap of lower players.

We can't really have divisions for board competitions, because there is one main prize. It just is not fair to tell higher handicappers at the club that they are not eligible to win these, or at least have their full handicap allowance that WHS tells us is fair.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

We have divisions for monthly medals. However, it begs the question, if we need to set up divisions to protect lower handicappers from the big scores of high handicappers, how fair is the system? I always had a hunch that, for any system, maybe the initial handicap of any player should err on the lower side rather than higher side in comparison to the initial handicap of lower players.

We can't really have divisions for board competitions, because there is one main prize. It just is not fair to tell higher handicappers at the club that they are not eligible to win these, or at least have their full handicap allowance that WHS tells us is fair.

Then why not have a handicap limit to win the Trophy?