Working out my rough h'cap off the WHS...

[louise_a]

simplistically if your course has a slope rating of 130 and you go round in 10 over the course rating then the value for your handicap index would be 10 divided by 130 multiplied by 113.

 

[rulefan]

Thank you. I think I’m still confused though.

If my index is based on me (for want of a better phrase) “playing to 20” on my home course, doesn’t my course handicap have to come out at 20, otherwise I’m getting an extra couple of shots over my best 8 from 20.

(I’ll go back to post 39 and re-read it.)

See Louise's post above

But can I appeal to every one - Do not get too concerned about just what your WHS handicap is going to be. Your Course Handicap (not Index) on a course you play most, won't be very far adrift. But remember, you are not comparing like with like.

The process of converting CONGU handicaps is not at all straightforward. CONGU is weighted towards home course scores. Which is why a separate CSS is calculated for open comp away players. WHS is designed to be course/tee independent. The Course Rating may not be exactly the same as the previous SSS and the algorith will not know when a course was last rated under either system.
The algorithm (put crudely), takes historical scores and uses the course rating/SSS and slope relevant to each score, then 'normalises' each score to a standard 113 slope. Then it does the 8/20 calculation. It is probably more sophisticated than that but I don't know the detail.
The normalisation will bring your 20 down.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

See Louise's post above

But can I appeal to every one - Do not get too concerned about just what your WHS handicap is going to be. Your Course Handicap (not Index) on a course you play most, won't be very far adrift. But remember, you are not comparing like with like.

The process of converting CONGU handicaps is not at all straightforward. CONGU is weighted towards home course scores. Which is why a separate CSS is calculated for open comp away players. WHS is designed to be course/tee independent. The Course Rating may not be exactly the same as the previous SSS and the algorith will not know when a course was last rated under either system.
The algorithm (put crudely), takes historical scores and uses the course rating/SSS and slope relevant to each score, then 'normalises' each score to a standard 113 slope. Then it does the 8/20 calculation. It is probably more sophisticated than that but I don't know the detail.
The normalisation will bring your 20 down.

True and there is also the possibility of the par being adjusted overnight due to an adverse weather adjustment which may apply, having assessed all the cards submitted that day.

 

[rulefan]

True and there is also the possibility of the par being adjusted overnight due to an adverse weather adjustment which may apply, having assessed all the cards submitted that day.

That has nothing to do with conversion of existing CONGU handicaps.

With the WHS, if a score is returned after the daily cut off and the Playing Conditions Calculation has been performed, it will be processed using the PCC from the day it was played. The score itself will not affect the PCC that has already been made.
The adjustment is not made to the par, it is made to the player's Score Differential.

Remember Par has nothing to do with anything, it is the Course Rating that matters.

The Score Differential is the difference between a player's adjusted gross score and the Course Rating, taking account of the Slope Rating and the PCC.

 

[jim8flog]

People will need to get their heads around the fact the their handicap index will not be based on their home club but on a course rating of 113

That makes no sense to me either.

Their handicap index will be based upon their home club and scores recorded from playing in qualifying comps away from their home club.
It is their playing handicap that will be based upon the slope.

 

[Orikoru]

Well, I started this topic to try and make it clearer, now I'm more confused than I was before. Thanks everyone for your help.

 

[robinthehood]

Well, I started this topic to try and make it clearer, now I'm more confused than I was before. Thanks everyone for your help.

I've read elsewhere they expect the new handicap to be within a shot of your current one. I'll just wait and see i guess , it's still well over a year away.

 

[Orikoru]

I've read elsewhere they expect the new handicap to be within a shot of your current one. I'll just wait and see i guess , it's still well over a year away.

I think the 4 shot difference I experienced when working it out can be explained by the fact I've been cut 5 shots in the last two months. I imagine in the new system it will be much harder for people to get cut that many shots that rapidly - coming down will be a slower process. Plus all I need to do is shoot a few more rounds in the 80s over the next year and the different will become negligible.

 

[lex!]

Well, I started this topic to try and make it clearer, now I'm more confused than I was before. Thanks everyone for your help.

I wouldn't worry too much about it yet, I reckon they are a still a long way away from it. At the start of this year I went to a presentation promising a Jan 2020 implementation, and also promising that software providers would be showing transition handicaps on your record, illustrating what you would be playing off under WHS. But it's all gone extremely quiet recently from England Golf and the likes of IG. I suspect it will be delayed by a year at least.

 

[duncan mackie]

I've read elsewhere they expect the new handicap to be within a shot of your current one. I'll just wait and see i guess , it's still well over a year away.

It's expected to vary across the range. The average 20 handicapper is likely to see an increase higher that the average 10 handicapper and the average scr player is unlikely to move at all.

However....for those who have quietly been putting 3 cards in each year and stayed under the radar of AR there may well be wholesale realignment (and this will also apply to those who declined increases, or those for whom increases have been recommended but not auctioned for years - not that thisnhas ever happened🤔)

 

[Orikoru]

I wouldn't worry too much about it yet, I reckon they are a still a long way away from it. At the start of this year I went to a presentation promising a Jan 2020 implementation, and also promising that software providers would be showing transition handicaps on your record, illustrating what you would be playing off under WHS. But it's all gone extremely quiet recently from England Golf and the likes of IG. I suspect it will be delayed by a year at least.

The date I've been seeing bandied around is October 2020 now.

 

[Dan2501]

Just done mine after what I thought had been a pretty bad season and works out at 12.5, currently at 12.8 so little change. Better than I thought.

 

[rulefan]

Just done mine after what I thought had been a pretty bad season and works out at 12.5, currently at 12.8 so little change. Better than I thought.

Did you take slope into account? Did you use the then SSS or the current CR?

 

[Rlburnside]

That has nothing to do with conversion of existing CONGU handicaps.

With the WHS, if a score is returned after the daily cut off and the Playing Conditions Calculation has been performed, it will be processed using the PCC from the day it was played. The score itself will not affect the PCC that has already been made.
The adjustment is not made to the par, it is made to the player's Score Differential.

Remember Par has nothing to do with anything, it is the Course Rating that matters.

The Score Differential is the difference between a player's adjusted gross score and the Course Rating, taking account of the Slope Rating and the PCC.

I'm a bit confused about the PCC, you say 'if the PCC has been performed ' but how is this done? What if one day your playing and it's 5 mph wind and the next time you play it's 35 mph wind?

 

[rulefan]

The date I've been seeing bandied around is October 2020 now.

1 Nov 2020 is the current planned date. Well after the peak playing season in GB&I

 

[rulefan]

I'm a bit confused about the PCC, you say 'if the PCC has been performed ' but how is this done? What if one day your playing and it's 5 mph wind and the next time you play it's 35 mph wind?

The system analyses all scores for that day for that course to see if scores are out of kilter. If so it posits that conditions may have had an effect. 'Conditions' include Weather, Course and Course set-up.
Similar in principle to CSS. Has been used and tested in Australia for many years.

 

[Dan2501]

Did you take slope into account? Did you use the then SSS or the current CR?

I didn't. It's not going to be particularly accurate, but took an average of CSS over the 20 rounds played and used that just to give me a rough idea.

 

[Rlburnside]

The system analyses all scores for that day for that course to see if scores are out of kilter. If so it posits that conditions may have had an effect. 'Conditions' include Weather, Course and Course set-up.
Similar in principle to CSS. Has been used and tested in Australia for many years.

So CSS will be still with us but under a different guise, thanks

 

[USER1999]

Just done mine after what I thought had been a pretty bad season and works out at 12.5, currently at 12.8 so little change. Better than I thought.

This will probably equate to roughly your playing h/cap round your own course, as in the number of shots you will receive.
Your actual handicap could be wildly different, due to course rating etc.
So you could get 13 shots at home, same as, but your actual handicap could be anything, say 10, or 16. It is just a number used as a base for calculation.

 

[PNWokingham]

A number of misapprehensions here.

Par is not used in the handicap index calculation.

The handicap index is the base start point computed from the average of the best 8 from the last 20 scores.

A course is rated for a model scratch player and for a model bogey player (about 20ish)
Slope is a mark that describes the measure of difficulty for a bogey golfer relative to a scratch golfer at a specific set of tees. A golf course of standard playing difficulty has a slope rating of 113, and ratings range from a minimum of 55 (very easy) to a maximum of 155 (extremely difficult).
The difference between the two ratings is turned into a straight line graph where the gradient is the slope using the following formula:
Slope = (Bogey course rating - Course Rating) * 5.381 for men (or 4.24 for women). (Don't ask why).

When playing any set of tees at any course you will find either a notice showing your Course Handicap (ie the handicap to be used for play) for your handicap index
or you can use the following formula: Course Handicap = Handicap Index * Slope / 113

Without knowing the slope of a course it is difficult to know exactly how a CONGU handicap would convert to a WHS handicap.

But if your course has recently been rated to the USGA standard you should be able to see the slope here: https://ncrdb.usga.org/NCRDB/?index=&rating=

If outside the USA only enter the club name

Very useful - just checked and we now have a rating - but it looks quite high in the context of 55 to 155 - definitely not easy but higher slope than i would have thought