Working out my rough h'cap off the WHS...

[Orikoru]

A number of misapprehensions here.

Par is not used in the handicap index calculation.

The handicap index is the base start point computed from the average of the best 8 from the last 20 scores.

A course is rated for a model scratch player and for a model bogey player (about 20ish)
Slope is a mark that describes the measure of difficulty for a bogey golfer relative to a scratch golfer at a specific set of tees. A golf course of standard playing difficulty has a slope rating of 113, and ratings range from a minimum of 55 (very easy) to a maximum of 155 (extremely difficult).
The difference between the two ratings is turned into a straight line graph where the gradient is the slope using the following formula:
Slope = (Bogey course rating - Course Rating) * 5.381 for men (or 4.24 for women). (Don't ask why).

When playing any set of tees at any course you will find either a notice showing your Course Handicap (ie the handicap to be used for play) for your handicap index
or you can use the following formula: Course Handicap = Handicap Index * Slope / 113

Without knowing the slope of a course it is difficult to know exactly how a CONGU handicap would convert to a WHS handicap.

But if your course has recently been rated to the USGA standard you should be able to see the slope here: https://ncrdb.usga.org/NCRDB/?index=&rating=

If outside the USA only enter the club name

Why the hell is the scale from 55 to 155 with 113 as the middle?? Are those numbers just made up? Are they trying to make it confusing?? Why not do a scale of 1 to 100.

I've searched Haste Hill on that link, it comes up, but it only gives ratings for the red tees for some reason. Why would that be? For what it's worth (probably nothing) the 'slope' off the reds is 123.

 

[Orikoru]

CONGU are currently fine tuning the software which will convert everyone's CONGU handicap into a WHS cap automatically.

That would be a bit mad if people are all turning up with wildly different handicaps one day.

 

[rulefan]

That would be a bit mad if people are all turning up with wildly different handicaps one day.

The algorithm will be run and given to players well in advance of implementation. No doubt a club will be able to run it after every qualifier over the weeks before implementation.

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

It is expected that most peoples handicap will be higher, looking at JonnyGutteridges post his best round was 5 over his handicap so would I expect get a big increase.

Of course you would also have to adjust to get your handicap index which is worked out using the course and slope ratings

No that's not right, my best round was 5 over par gross. I didn't include any net scores as it's irrelevant when it comes to calculating your WGH handicap.

 

[Britishshooting]

Why the hell is the scale from 55 to 155 with 113 as the middle?? Are those numbers just made up? Are they trying to make it confusing?? Why not do a scale of 1 to 100.

I've searched Haste Hill on that link, it comes up, but it only gives ratings for the red tees for some reason. Why would that be? For what it's worth (probably nothing) the 'slope' off the reds is 123.

Same at one of my clubs, only ladies tees currently provided at 125.

Other club has all tees sorted though and ranges from 134 off whites to 124 on reds. Yellows are at 132

 

[rulefan]

I've searched Haste Hill on that link, it comes up, but it only gives ratings for the red tees for some reason. Why would that be? For what it's worth (probably nothing) the 'slope' off the reds is 123.

It would seem that the men's tees have not yet been rated. The ladies have been rating under the USGA method for may years. I haven't got the latest figures but there are still scores of men's tees to be done before October next year.

 

[rulefan]

No that's not right, my best round was 5 over par gross. I didn't include any net scores as it's irrelevant when it comes to calculating your WGH handicap.

I assume you mean WHS.

But net differential is the important figure

 

[Britishshooting]

The slope doesn't make sense to me at a local club the following is shown:

Blue Tee (Course Rating 76.4) (Slope 138) (Bogey Rating 101.9)
White Tee (Course Rating 74.7) (Slope 139) (Bogey Rating 100.4)

The par of each tee is 72, and scratch and bogey golfers play to a higher number off blues, so how does white have a higher slope?

Also makes me question what warrants a course achieving a slope of 155 or is that nigh on impossible.

Just glitches maybe?

 

[rulefan]

Remember, per has nothing to do with it. It is only a measure of the length of each hole. It does not indicate difficulty.
Slope simply indicate the relative difficulty for that set of tees for the bogey player against the scratch player.
It all depends of where the obstacles are and how big or small they are (ie the things which cause problems)(eg bunkers, oob, water, green size ....)
A bunker at 250 is not an issue for the model bogey player.

The slope indicates that the white course is marginally more difficult for the bogey player relative to the difficulty for the scratch player.
Slope is not an absolute value it is comparative.

Incidentally, Carnoustie is 140, Ganton 145, Pine Valley Golf Club in New Jersey has a slope rating of 155 from the championship tees.

 

[louise_a]

No that's not right, my best round was 5 over par gross. I didn't include any net scores as it's irrelevant when it comes to calculating your WGH handicap.

My apologies I thought it was adjusted nett

 

[louise_a]

The slope doesn't make sense to me at a local club the following is shown:

Blue Tee (Course Rating 76.4) (Slope 138) (Bogey Rating 101.9)
White Tee (Course Rating 74.7) (Slope 139) (Bogey Rating 100.4)

The par of each tee is 72, and scratch and bogey golfers play to a higher number off blues, so how does white have a higher slope?

Also makes me question what warrants a course achieving a slope of 155 or is that nigh on impossible.

Just glitches maybe?

The pars may been the same but there is nearly 2 shots difference in course rating.

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

I assume you mean WHS.

But net differential is the important figure

Quite right, WHS.

Net isn’t important when it comes to calculating your new handicap, surely? I can’t see see how that makes any sense.

I would hazard a guess that my calcs are incorrect as I have used CSS, whereas the new system will use Course Rating (adjusted based on scores posted that day - accounting for weather, pin placements, tees, rough conditions etc?), but the rest of my calcs are surely correct?

Average of my best 8 rounds based on Adjusted Gross Score against CSS.

 

[duncan mackie]

Quite right, WHS.

Net isn’t important when it comes to calculating your new handicap, surely? I can’t see see how that makes any sense.

I would hazard a guess that my calcs are incorrect as I have used CSS, whereas the new system will use Course Rating (adjusted based on scores posted that day - accounting for weather, pin placements, tees, rough conditions etc?), but the rest of my calcs are surely correct?

Average of my best 8 rounds based on Adjusted Gross Score against CSS.

You can do the calc two ways - basically absolute and relative. Your calc is absolute, and looks sound (although there are factors as posted by Rulefan earlier in thread).

 

[duncan mackie]

The slope doesn't make sense to me at a local club the following is shown:

Blue Tee (Course Rating 76.4) (Slope 138) (Bogey Rating 101.9)
White Tee (Course Rating 74.7) (Slope 139) (Bogey Rating 100.4)

The par of each tee is 72, and scratch and bogey golfers play to a higher number off blues, so how does white have a higher slope?

Also makes me question what warrants a course achieving a slope of 155 or is that nigh on impossible.

Just glitches maybe?

No reason there are glitches. Those figures simply indicate that it is relatively more difficult for a 20 handicap player to play to the course rating from the white tees than the blues (based on the underlying capabilities assumed).

Not unusual.

 

[rulefan]

My apologies I thought it was adjusted nett

Adjusted gross

 

[Britishshooting]

Ahh I get it now, thanks rulefan, Louise and DM.

Makes sense

 

[jim8flog]

But if your course has recently been rated to the USGA standard you should be able to see the slope here: https://ncrdb.usga.org/NCRDB/?index=&rating=

If outside the USA only enter the club name

Thankyou for that. I knew our course had been rated but our manager has been abit reluctant to release the information.

 

[jim8flog]

Just worked I will roughly gain 1.5 shots playing off the whites and 1 shot of the yellows compared to my CONGU handicap.

It is noticeable that the USGA rating is 0.8 and 0.4 shot higher than SSS for the white/yellow tees.

 

[jim8flog]

I found this comment interesting

Scratch Golfer

Is one who can play to a Course Handicapâ„¢ of zero on any and all rated golf courses.
He (she) can hit tee shots an average of 250 (210) yards and reach a 470 (400)-yard hole in two shots.

Bogey Golfer

Is one with a Course Handicap of 20 (24). He (she) can hit tee shots an average of 200 (150) yards and can reach a 370 (280)-yard hole in two shots.

 

[cliveb]

Why the hell is the scale from 55 to 155 with 113 as the middle?? Are those numbers just made up? Are they trying to make it confusing?? Why not do a scale of 1 to 100.

My understanding is that it's 113 because a statistical analysis indicated that a bogey golfer on average scores 1.13 shots more per hole than a scratch golfer on an "average" course.
I don't know why the difficulty scale range is what it is.

I've searched Haste Hill on that link, it comes up, but it only gives ratings for the red tees for some reason. Why would that be? For what it's worth (probably nothing) the 'slope' off the reds is 123.

It would appear that Haste Hill has only had slope ratings done for the red tee for ladies - that's why there's nothing else in the database. Northwood is in the same boat. You could try other nearby clubs (eg. Stanmore, Grims Dyke) to see their slope ratings for mens tees.
I've never played Haste Hill so I don't know how your whites and yellows compare to your reds, but looking at the score card I'd guess the slope rating for men off the whites is going to be around the 120 mark.

And finally, from what I've heard, higher handicappers should expect in increase in handicap index of 2 or 3 shots when the WHS comes in. Mid handicappers 1 or 2, and Cat1's will stay pretty much as they are. So we can all look forward to the low handicappers moaning even more than they do now about giving too many shots!