Winter Comp decision

[IanMcC]

I am the recently appointed M&H Secretary at my club, and I would be interested to hear the forum comments on a decision I took today.
In the winter we have 15 hole non qualifying stableford comps, with divisional prizes.
A 15 handicapper had the best score (38 points) in his division. His card, however, did not have his handicap written on it.
We have just taken delivery of new cards, so he may have been unfamiliar with them.
In a Summer qualifier it would have been a DQ. I took the decision not to DQ him. I wrote him an email pointing out his error and asking him to be more vigilant in future.
I know there are some sticklers for the rules on the forum, and also some more open minded individuals. Do you think I was out of order, cheating the guy in runner up spot, or do you think I took measures that are not following the rules, but seem reasonable?

 

[Imurg]

As it's a 15 hole comp it's not "proper" golf - as in a qualifier over 18 holes - so I'm in agreement with you.
Monthly Medal..?...DQ
Winter knockabout..? Let it go.

 

[Crow]

Do you have a different set of rules that you use for non-qualifying comps?
If so then refer to those.
Otherwise, DQ the blighter.

 

[brfcfan]

No right or wrong answer really just personal opinion, I apply the rules regardless, mainly for education purposes and to avoid any criticism of double standards. I am fine with your approach though.

Not sure what handicaps are expected to be put on the cards come November, is the handicap index that is required or the shots received once slope has been applied or both?

 

[patricks148]

Not a DQ for me unless his hdc is wrong or took the wrong number of shots..

 

[rulefan]

Did it affect the number of strokes he received? The rule is straightforward and doesn't appear to have an exception for non-qualifiers.

Handicap on Scorecard Too High or No Handicap Shown.
If this affects the number of strokes the player gets, the player is disqualified from the handicap competition. If it does not, there is no penalty.

 

[doublebogey7]

So will you take such a relaxed view for an unsigned card, a wrong score or an incorrect handicap, how about an incorrect drop or playing a wrong ball. What about a similar rule break in a summer better ball competition. I am sure you will find that someone at the club will now expect you to so and you will struggle to provide a defence.

 

[rosecott]

As it's a 15 hole comp it's not "proper" golf - as in a qualifier over 18 holes - so I'm in agreement with you.
Monthly Medal..?...DQ
Winter knockabout..? Let it go.

Of course it's proper golf - it's organised by the committee. It cannot be up to the comp organiser to decide to disregard the rules - where would the line be drawn.

 

[IanMcC]

Did it affect the number of strokes he received? The rule is straightforward and doesn't appear to have an exception for non-qualifiers.

Handicap on Scorecard Too High or No Handicap Shown.
If this affects the number of strokes the player gets, the player is disqualified from the handicap competition. If it does not, there is no penalty.

Thanks for this. Of course, I checked his handicap was 15 and that his card had been scored correctly. I truly was not aware of this rule, and hold my hands up. I am glad I did the right thing both ethically and by the rule book. There are a couple of answer providers that maybe should get off of their high horse, however, without mentioning any names. 😁

 

[doublebogey7]

Thanks for this. Of course, I checked his handicap was 15 and that his card had been scored correctly. I truly was not aware of this rule, and hold my hands up. I am glad I did the right thing both ethically and by the rule book. There are a couple of answer providers that maybe should get off of their high horse, however, without mentioning any names. 😁

I suspect I am one of those that you refer to, but you gave the distinct impression in your OP that you knew the rule and decided to ignore it, I apologise if that's not the case.

 

[IanMcC]

I suspect I am one of those that you refer to, but you gave the distinct impression in your OP that you knew the rule and decided to ignore it, I apologise if that's not the case.

I thought the rule was disqualification for no handicap shown, but I also thought that ethically I acted correctly in the spirit of the game. That is why I posted the interesting dilemma. Rulefan's answer was genuinely news to me, and I suspect from your first reply it was news to you also. I find it interesting that the first 4 replies all advocated different responses to the situation. I am glad the rules cover this, as I did not think they would. I am appalled that I would have wrongly dq'd him without thought in a qualifier though. I will learnfrom this.

 

[rulie]

I am the recently appointed M&H Secretary at my club, and I would be interested to hear the forum comments on a decision I took today.
In the winter we have 15 hole non qualifying stableford comps, with divisional prizes.
A 15 handicapper had the best score (38 points) in his division. His card, however, did not have his handicap written on it.
We have just taken delivery of new cards, so he may have been unfamiliar with them.
In a Summer qualifier it would have been a DQ. I took the decision not to DQ him. I wrote him an email pointing out his error and asking him to be more vigilant in future.
I know there are some sticklers for the rules on the forum, and also some more open minded individuals. Do you think I was out of order, cheating the guy in runner up spot, or do you think I took measures that are not following the rules, but seem reasonable?

While you consider your actions "reasonable", the Rules do not support them. The player should have been dq'd from the handicap competition for a breach of Rule 3.3b. Now that you've been seen to make decisions which are not supported by the Rules, it's likely that you will be asked many times to make similar decisions in the future. Your job is much easier when you support the Rules.

 

[2blue]

Did it affect the number of strokes he received? The rule is straightforward and doesn't appear to have an exception for non-qualifiers.

Handicap on Scorecard Too High or No Handicap Shown.
If this affects the number of strokes the player gets, the player is disqualified from the handicap competition. If it does not, there is no penalty.

Does this not suggest that DQ is the correct result?

I thought the rule was disqualification for no handicap shown, but I also thought that ethically I acted correctly in the spirit of the game. That is why I posted the interesting dilemma. Rulefan's answer was genuinely news to me, and I suspect from your first reply it was news to you also. I find it interesting that the first 4 replies all advocated different responses to the situation. I am glad the rules cover this, as I did not think they would. I am appalled that I would have wrongly dq'd him without thought in a qualifier though. I will learn from this.

I think one of us is misreading this.
For what it's worth I'm with most of the others, as an unimportant Winter non-Q Comp it's a very good opportunity for someone to learn the rules.. .. it's a DQ as any other decision will come back to bite you at some time & folk will lose confidence in how you are going to handle things in the future. Sorry if it's not the answer you were looking for.
EDIT... fast-fingers Rulie beat me...... hahha

 

[rulefan]

It is interesting that 6-2b/2.5 explicitly uses the words 'this affected the number of strokes received' as the justification for the DQ. The implication is therefore that if his score was not affected (and seemingly it wasn't), there is no DQ.

I am assuming he recorded his gross hole score. If he entered his correct points and/or net he did not 'get' any unentitled strokes.

If this does not affect the number of strokes the player gets, there is no penalty.


Can Ian confirm exactly what was on his card please.

 

[IanMcC]

Handicap on Scorecard Too High or No Handicap Shown.
If this affects the number of strokes the player gets, the player is disqualified from the handicap competition. If it does not, there is no penalty.

I fail to see how I can misread this. His scorecard was correct according to his actual handicap, so obviously no DQ.

 

[IanMcC]

It is interesting that 6-2b/2.5 explicitly uses the words 'this affected the number of strokes received' as the justification for the DQ. The implication is therefore that if his score was not affected (and seemingly it wasn't), there is no DQ.

I am assuming he recorded his gross hole score. If he entered his correct points and/or net he did not 'get' any unentitled strokes.

If this does not affect the number of strokes the player gets, there is no penalty.


Can Ian confirm exactly what was on his card please.

All gross scores were entered, and his Stableford points tallied correctly with his handicap of 15.

 

[rulefan]

I must say I have some sympathy with 'others' but If the words do not apply to this handicap competition, when do they?
What am I missing ?

 

[SammmeBee]

I must say I have some sympathy with 'others' but If the words do not apply to this handicap competition, when do they?
What am I missing ?

When a net 72 should really be a net 73 with the correct handicap applied....

 

[rulie]

Handicap on Scorecard Too High or No Handicap Shown.
If this affects the number of strokes the player gets, the player is disqualified from the handicap competition. If it does not, there is no penalty.

I fail to see how I can misread this. His scorecard was correct according to his actual handicap, so obviously no DQ.

If the handicap is not on the card, he does not receive any strokes. He is eligible in the gross competition playing as a scratch. You're saying that he received 15 stokes, that is more than he was entitled to and he is therefore disqualified from the handicap competition.

 

[doublebogey7]

If the handicap is not on the card, he does not receive any strokes. He is eligible in the gross competition playing as a scratch. You're saying that he received 15 stokes, that is more than he was entitled to and he is therefore disqualified from the handicap competition.

I concur with Rulie here. There would be no point in the rule at all, if players could simply leave their handicap off the scorecard and continue to receive the shots they would be entitled to