Why is golf so expensive in England?

[EchtLoon]

Having just joined a new club this year, a 9 holer for the princly sum of £480 (down £100 on last year), it's been a subject brought up by many members, prompted by me being Scottish, as to why golf can be so much more expensive in England than in Scotland?

In Scotland, bar the most elite, paying £1000 or more a year would be seen as lunacy, yet in England it's almost the norm. In fact anything over £500 is still a dear club.

Where do these clubs charging four figure sums spend their money?

 

[jaser33]

would tend to agree with you there,coming from carnoustie and recently moved to england i have noticed the gastly sums for what can only be described as bad municiple courses,perhaps i`ve been pampered growing up and playing round carnoustie where the fees are a mere £300 aprox for 3 courses

 

[birdieman]

Down to basic economics I suppose - in England there is a high population so therefore a high demand for golf. Golf courses are often located on prime land with high land value(i.e arable land or prime development land). With the high demand comes limited available memberships to maintain some value for money for the members i.e too many members and you'd never get on the course! Limited membership availabililty with high demand for golf = high revenue potential for the clubs through annual subs which they exploit which in turn creates elitism for the members (only the rich can join, all mercs and beemers in the carpark etc). Value for money doesn't come into it as Golf clubs are businesses so they will try to maximise profit.

In Scotland you often have a low population earning less money so there is low demand and lots of supply (plenty courses). You also have lower value land and more land available generally so costs are lower to develop golf courses. Waiting lists are not an issue at most clubs, they want more members so they will offer an attractive price to get them in.
There may be other factors like a more socialist mindset in Scotland which is less profit driven than down south.

Supply and demand....innit?

 

[USER1999]

Maybe it is because of the rates. Because the land is expensive, the rateable value is high. Water costs, drawinage etc are all way higher in the South too. Salaries for greens staff, secretaries, bar staff, managers etc are more than up North.

Yes more people want to play, especially if the course is nice, so they do need to deter over playing. But the development costs (land purchase, lanscaping, course layout etc) for my club were paid off 120 years ago, and mine is also a members club, which is non profit making, so it isn't like someone is skimming money into their pocket. It genuinely seems to cost £1000 per member to run it.

 

[EchtLoon]

Okay Birdieman, I take your point as far as proprietary clubs go, but most clubs are still members clubs, so they are not in it for profit, and even if they keep the cost high for elitism's sake, they still have to spend the money somewhere?

My new club is certainly not elitist (although some petty dress rules) but is struggling for cash, it's only a little 9 holer, but at £480 price bracket I could instead join Cruden Bay (for £510) and get 27 holes for roughly the same price, plus a massive driving range, and million pound clubhouse.

Land value is only pertinent if you are building a new club, or it is recently built, again not relevant for my club, which although only built in 1972, had the land gifted by the council as the old course was compulsory purchased for commercial development.

 

[EchtLoon]

Maybe it is because of the rates. Because the land is expensive, the rateable value is high. Water costs, drawinage etc are all way higher in the South too. Salaries for greens staff, secretaries, bar staff, managers etc are more than up North.

You're probably right Murph, I just have a hard time making the sums match.

Have a look at Birdieman's annual fees http://www.ballatergolfclub.co.uk/membership.htm

Can the difference all be down to rates and water? Staff fees aren't that much different, although Honorary Secretaries are much more the norm in Scotland which would give a good saving.

 

[birdieman]

You should get a statement of accounts yearly as a member - that should show where every penny is going and how much your club is making in profit (or loss ) each year plus how much they have in savings and equities.

You know the answer Echtloon, come back hame!

 

[EchtLoon]

You should get a statement of accounts yearly as a member - that should show where every penny is going and how much your club is making in profit (or loss ) each year plus how much they have in savings and equities.

You know the answer Echtloon, come back hame!

Yer nae kiddin' loon.

TBH though, I'm more just curious that raging mad at being ripped off, becasue it's been a topic of discussion with a few of the members lately, perhaps prompted by the start of the season seeing us having some of the worst greens I've ever played on (thankfully coming on now)

 

[SteveBonners]

You are not alone in wondering at the high cost of golf in Southern England. Have friends in North Yorkshire who could join 2 clubs in that area with a 7 day membership for the same cost as an average course here in Essex and still have change!!!
I know the cost of living , land etc is greater but is there that much difference?

 

[ColinR]

From what I have observed, in Scotland golf is a game for every man, whilst in England it is still viewed as a middle class game. I think this affects the pricing.

 

[bobmac]

A question for you northerners.
Do you feel sorry for the southerners who have to fork out all that dosh for membership? £1000 plus

Lets have a clean fight please

 

[birdieman]

A question for you northerners.
Do you feel sorry for the southerners who have to fork out all that dosh for membership? £1000 plus

Lets have a clean fight please

No, they get less rain than us and get to play all winter unlike me so it's a leveller really!

 

[haplesshacker]

A question for you northerners.
Do you feel sorry for the southerners who have to fork out all that dosh for membership? £1000 plus

Lets have a clean fight please

Bob launches grenade into the forum and runs for armchair, tea and biscuits!

Perhaps one of the reasons is that we can play all year and thus the greenkeepers have alot of extra work for that very reason.

Perhaps, as someone has already said, pure economics, supply and demand.

Perhaps it's because of the 'everyman' nature of the game in Scotland, and the perceived 'class' of the game in England. As already mentioned.

But whatever it is. It does hack me off that there is such a huge discrepency!

 

[simplyme]

I play here, www.efgc.co.uk and the membership rates are £710 per annum with an initial set up of £585.15.

I worked it out the other day, playing a minimum of 4 times a week, green fees at ~ £25 for non members, I save a hell of a lot of money!

 

[CliveW]

No, they get less rain than us and get to play all winter unlike me so it's a leveller really!

Another falicy I'm afraid. The Carse of Gowrie has less annual rainfall than Kent.

 

[SS2]

Scotland
Population: 5,160,000
Courses: 556
Population/Course: 9,280

England
Population: 51,009,000
Courses: 1775
Population/Course: 28,737

Ok, crap and wholly unsupportable statistics but it does make the point that Scotland has more courses per head of population

 

[USER1999]

But you also have a bigger transient population of american and japanese hackers (oops, I mean tourists).

 

[EchtLoon]

But you also have a bigger transient population of american and japanese hackers (oops, I mean tourists).

True, but in general they only play the few courses where fees are comparable with England, Cruden BAy & Royal Dornoch perhaps being exceptions.

 

[redmike]

I have just joined Didsbury in Manchester as an associate member as I couldnt justify the cost of full membership. There are 5 clubs in close proximity of each other around the River Mersey in Manchester that all charge virtually exactly the same for full membership - around £850. I am sure that this is just a huge coincidence.

 

[vig]

It's because they can!

We are robbed blind with whatever we buy/use.

We pay it so the price stays the same.
If we didn't pay it, at some courses, someone else would.
It is supply and demand but an absolute rip off no the less.

I do envy the Scots for the choice and price.