why do you play golf?

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Err why? The best part of golf over nearly every other sport is that it has a method of [partially] leveling the playing field so that people of all ability can participate without it being a pointless exercise from the off.

And I'll add - trying playing squash against a much better player - absolutely pointless and no fun. The better player will win whatever - the lesser player just can't get anywhere near the ball. And it's not a lot of fun for the better player either.

 

[londonlewis]

And I'll add - trying playing squash against a much better player - absolutely pointless and no fun. The better player will win whatever - the lesser player just can't get anywhere near the ball. And it's not a lot of fun for the better player either.

Exactly, we want the competition.
I have a sneaking suspicion that those calling for a scrapping of the handicap system so we all play to lowest gross score are only suffering from a major case of sour grapes!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I quite like the idea of the league system in the other thread actually. The humiliation of a high handicap comment was relating to your comment about being humiliated in defeat. I don't see how either scenario is much better tbh.

I really don't think people would give up if they think they can't win though. I love playing, hitting shots, hoping to play better than yesterday. At no point do I think - great it's a nice day and I'm getting 12 shots.

Also, the fact that we have a maximum handicap must be off putting for beginners surely? You scored over 100 for your cards but the handicaps only go up to 28 so here you go.

Doesn't your club have Category Divisions for handicap competitions as well as overall?

 

[pokerjoke]

I play golf because I was looking for an outside sport,or pastime that I could play that
gave me enjoyment,and gave me something to aim for.
I practice because I want to be the best I can be at golf.
I wanted the competition,and joining a club gave me that opportunity.
I wanted to meet new people in a new town,and golf gave me that chance.
I also wanted to play golf because my dad played,and it would give me the chance to spend more
quality time with him.
There is nothing like golf where you can be great one day,and absolutely rank the next,and all
you did was fall asleep.
It gives you joy,makes you mad,makes you happy,makes you sad,but for me its an
amazing game.
I hope to be playing till the day I can no longer lift a club.

 

[TheClaw]

Exactly, we want the competition.
I have a sneaking suspicion that those calling for a scrapping of the handicap system so we all play to lowest gross score are only suffering from a major case of sour grapes!

Your sneaking suspicion is incorrect, in my case anyway. I've never lost anything that I feel I should have won. I'm not upset or angry, I just have an opinion.

 

[TheClaw]

And I'll add - trying playing squash against a much better player - absolutely pointless and no fun. The better player will win whatever - the lesser player just can't get anywhere near the ball. And it's not a lot of fun for the better player either.

Should squash have a handicap system? The better player should win!

Golf (stroke play) has an advantage over every other sport in that you play the course. Therefore, any level of ability can play together against the same 'opponent'.

Doesn't your club have Category Divisions for handicap competitions as well as overall?

Yes.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Should squash have a handicap system? The better player should win!

Yes - but no fun for either player. Pity the county standard player.

Golf (stroke play) has an advantage over every other sport in that you play the course. Therefore, any level of ability can play together against the same 'opponent'.

That is indeed one form of the game - and an enjoyable one. Fortunately there are many for whom that form of the game is not their favourite

Yes.

So why are you thinking a League structure would be good if you lready have one. Squash can only be played in a league structure - with handicaps I think within each league for some comps. But I can't play an enjoyable and competitive game of squash or badminston or such like with a mate who is county standard - but we can play togather and compete at golf. Now how good is that. That the Lord for the handicap system.

 

[Crow]

Should squash have a handicap system? The better player should win!

Squash, like many other sports, probably would have a handicap system if a meaningful one could be devised.
I used to play squash and there was a ladder system in use to make matches competitive, similar to the "divisions" proposed in the other thread going on at the minute, win your division and you go up one, lose and you go down one. It worked to a point but you soon got tired of playing the same old faces.

In golf your first opponent is the course, if a scratch player and a 28 handicapper were playing to their handicap on the day then they would have to try their hardest on every hole in order to compete, so each players ability is always stretched to their limit and each player gets full enjoyment from the game.

What can squash (or most other sports) do to replicate this?
Opponents are directly playing each other so all you can do is give a point advantage, say the "28 capper" needs to score just one or two points. For the duration of the game the gulf in play will be immense and the 28 capper will be made to look like the novice he is. AND NEITHER PLAYER WILL ENJOY IT.
Or maybe tie the "scratch" player's shoe laces together, or make him play blindfold?

Most sports are played directly against the opponent so devising an effective, workable and, most importantly, enjoyable system of handicapping is almost impossible, otherwise I believe that most sports would have one.

 

[TheClaw]

Squash, like many other sports, probably would have a handicap system if a meaningful one could be devised.
I used to play squash and there was a ladder system in use to make matches competitive, similar to the "divisions" proposed in the other thread going on at the minute, win your division and you go up one, lose and you go down one. It worked to a point but you soon got tired of playing the same old faces.

In golf your first opponent is the course, if a scratch player and a 28 handicapper were playing to their handicap on the day then they would have to try their hardest on every hole in order to compete, so each players ability is always stretched to their limit and each player gets full enjoyment from the game.

What can squash (or most other sports) do to replicate this?
Opponents are directly playing each other so all you can do is give a point advantage, say the "28 capper" needs to score just one or two points. For the duration of the game the gulf in play will be immense and the 28 capper will be made to look like the novice he is. AND NEITHER PLAYER WILL ENJOY IT.
Or maybe tie the "scratch" player's shoe laces together, or make him play blindfold?

Most sports are played directly against the opponent so devising an effective, workable and, most importantly, enjoyable system of handicapping is almost impossible, otherwise I believe that most sports would have one.

My point is that other sports don't need one. People still play them.

Golf needs a handicap system less than other sports because you play the course.

Do people that 'beat' players using their handicaps really think they've won?

...that's plenty from me on this subject. It's boring saying the same thing over and over again.

 

[Crow]

Golf needs a handicap system less than other sports because you play the course.

...that's plenty from me on this subject. It's boring saying the same thing over and over again.

But at the same time you at least play against those in your 2/3/4 ball.
If you're not all of similar playing ability then handicaps make for a sociable and fun round, and most of the posts on this thread give the social side as one of the main reasons for playing.

And that's plenty from me on the subject too.

 

[Pro Zach]

I have seen some tosh on here at times!

Its clear to me that if there weren't any handicap competitions most golf clubs would lose a high number of its members as the basis of the game at club level is the system that allows anyone and everyone to play together and all stand a reasonable chance of winning. If everyone played to scratch then players would divide into groups of a like kind of ability otherwise Mr One Handicap would probably always win and the fun would go from the game for all except Mr Two Handicap.

I won our Monthly Stableford on Wednesday off 12 h/c on countback from a 10 h/c guy - if it wasn't a handicap comp what incentive would there be for me to enter? He's 2 shots better than me and therefore I shouldn't beat him or, more particularly, the 5 h/capper who played. The beauty of golf is that everyone stands an equal chance of winning when they stand on the 1st tee and no other sport can do that.

I don't know how you get your analogy of car crashes and align it to a sporting hobby - frankly it's a nonsense!

Why is it clear to you? People have given many reasons why they play golf on this thread. Winning didn't seem to feature, so why do you think they would leave?

I can see your point about the handicap stopping groups forming. In our club the mens section, ladies section, senior section, junior section, tigers section and rabbits section all use the same handicap system.

It wasn't an analogy of a car crash to a sporting hobby. It was a simile of the rewards.

 

[Region3]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]If there wasn't a handicap system I think most people would still play. I certainly would. What I wouldn't do is enter competitions that I had no chance of winning, I'd just book a tee time after the comp and save myself £4
[/FONT]
Then on a Sunday in my friendly game, it would soon get boring winning most of the time, so I'd probably say ill give one mate 5 shots, and the other 2 7 shots. That would make it more interesting and stop the match finishing around the 14th hole.

Before my shoulder self destructed I used to play snooker and pool to a half decent standard. Sometimes I'd play my brother who isn't as good as me, so I might give him a 5 start to 10 at pool, or 28pts a frame at snooker. Whoever won we both knew who the best player was, but levelling the playing field made it more interesting.

For what it's worth, I'm enjoying reading the arguments the no hc guys are putting forward, I just don't happen to agree with them.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Woah - there is a handicap system in golf and it is NEVER going to go away - so debating the merits or otherwise of the h/cap system is a totally pointless exercise. Those that feel that it takes away from their pleasure - well - tough. I'm sure you can find others of a similar mind happy to play scratch golf with you (oops - see my mistake - alluding to handicaps there - they get everywhere).

Going to limit your golf a bit though as you have to have a handicap to play in a handicap comp and you can't just ignore it. So do an 83 off 10 - you can't sign for an 83 as much as you might dearly wish to.

 

[Crow]

Going to limit your golf a bit though as you have to have a handicap to play in a handicap comp and you can't just ignore it. So do an 83 off 10 - you can't sign for an 83 as much as you might dearly wish to.

But you can, just overwrite the handicap with a big zero.
It's only a DQ if you sign for a card showing a handicap that's higher than your correct handicap, if it's lower then that's the handicap your score is calculated to.

So all the anti-handicap guys can do this, then everyone is happy.

 

[chrisd]

Why is it clear to you? People have given many reasons why they play golf on this thread. Winning didn't seem to feature, so why do you think they would leave?

I can see your point about the handicap stopping groups forming. In our club the mens section, ladies section, senior section, junior section, tigers section and rabbits section all use the same handicap system.
,
It wasn't an analogy of a car crash to a sporting hobby. It was a simile of the rewards.

It just would limit the opportunity to play a variety of different players as most low handicappers wouldn't play with high ones and vice versa, there would be little or no competition and people would get bored. It seems that saying you play to win is wrong but, in fact, we pretty well all play to win. I have rarely entered a competition that I havnt wanted to win!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

But you can, just overwrite the handicap with a big zero.
It's only a DQ if you sign for a card showing a handicap that's higher than your correct handicap, if it's lower then that's the handicap your score is calculated to.

So all the anti-handicap guys can do this, then everyone is happy.

Go on then - however if you refuse to recognise your handicap you'll have a job getting into comps that are handicap limited. Telling the organiser of the comp that 'I play off scratch' (there i go again) isn't going to work.

I'm still not convinced that you fully appreciate the relationship between a golfer's handicap, his general capability and his ability to play to a handicap on any particular day. My understanding is that most golfers will on average play to about 32 stableford points - let's say a minumim of 4 over their handicap. Only fairly infrequently will a player play to his handicap or better in a competition. So to do well in a handicap competition a player has to score a fair bit better than he usuallly does - to win he will actually have to play a bit better than his general ability.

As handicap gets lower the variation between a golfers ability and general play on any day gets narrower so it is easier for the low handicapper to score to or near his handicap - and hence he will more often do quite well in a competition. Winning for low h/cappers is more difficult as winners often come from freak scores from higher handicappers. But the low handicapper playing to or better than his general ability will always be there or there abouts. And if you are always there or thereabouts you will occasionally win.

So I think the handicap system dioes a pretty good job of creating a levbel starting point. Play to your handicap and you'll do well. Really exceed yourself and you'll be rewarded - maybe with a win. And that is why winners of handicap comps are so congratulated - becuase we all know that on the day they really exceeded themselves. And as friends together in membership that's always good to see and to celebrate.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Then on a Sunday in my friendly game, it would soon get boring winning most of the time, so I'd probably say ill give one mate 5 shots, and the other 2 7 shots. That would make it more interesting and stop the match finishing around the 14th hole.

Sounds a lot like a handicap to me

 

[Brian_C]

to get away from the wife n' kids, meet new friends and to challenge n' improve my golf.

 

[Evesdad]

Doesn't your club have Category Divisions for handicap competitions as well as overall?

Beat me to it as its just taken me ages reading through this! Surely as others have said it is really you against the course? We are testing out ability against the shots the course gives us not each other? Matchplay apart obviously. Yes if I won a comp I know I'm not the best golfer out there but on that day I beat the course better than someone else. Next time I will have to be better still as I'd prob get a cut and so it all starts again.

On the op I play for the challenge, fresh air, exercise and the social side of friends new people and a bit of a giggle along the way. With all the highs and lows golf gives us I could always be doing something worse like working!

 

[Imurg]

Some might say I don't play Golf at all....
I am, however, quite adept at chasing a little white ball around a field....

And here's an idea....

All those who want to dissolve the handicap system can all join the same club and play Scratch competitions all the time, leaving the rest of us to enjoy, embrace or put up with(delete as appropriate) a system that has it's faults but is far better than not having one at all....


In my opinion of course...