Why can't pro's just sort out what they get asked to?

[dufferman]

I've had lessons with 3 guys in the last 2 years. My biggest issue is with my driver - it goes right when I get too fast and lift my head.

Unfortunately, I've learnt this through my own research and trial & error, rather than a pro just telling me. It seems that the guys I've seen (all from different clubs, too) want to 'rebuild my swing' or 'start with the basics'... which is great if I want to get to a Cat 1 golfer, but not so good when I just want to hit the damn thing without slicing it 40 yards right.

I like the way I swing the club, I'm changing things up a bit now to see if I can get more distance, but these are things I can forget about and go back to my 'normal' swing for a game or if it's all going wrong.

I feel that I would have saved a lot more time effort and dosh if one of them would have said "Yes it's this, do that and that then you'll fix the issue".

I'd maybe have gone back to them for learning a bit more about chipping & putting then, rather than doing my research online and in magazines!!

Is it just about them wanting your cash, or do they feel like they should be teaching a 'PGA approved' swing and couldn't just fix an issue?

Discuss.

 

[JustOne]

Firstly I doubt it's got anything to do with lifting your head. You might be pushing your hips towards the ball which effectively causes your head to raise but that's a different fish to fry. Can't say I've EVER met someone who lifts their head... yet every hacker always claims it to be so (courtesy of Grandad's teachings I guess).

Secondly, if you hit UP on the ball with your driver (which you probably should be trying to do in order to reduce spin and maximise length) with a SQUARE club face.... the ball will slice. That's nothing to do with you - that's PHYSICS.

ANYONE teaching you to line up square to your target with the driver, have a square clubface and hit up on it is teaching you the wrong way - simples.

 

[jp5]

Have you told them that you are solely interested in fixing your driver slice on a short term basis?

They may be genuinely trying to address fundamentals in your swing which cause the slice and save you time later down the line.

 

[Slab]

I kind of see where you’re coming from as a lesson a month ago the pro wanted me to change posture, grip etc when I really wanted my ‘faulty’ posture & grip to be consistent

But in their defense if I took a BMW car to a garage pro with faulty Ford brakes fitted (even though it still stopped the car to some degree) the first thing they’d want in order to fix it is the right parts to work with!

 

[Fader]

It really depends on a few things and the most important ones before going and having the lesson imo are discussing with the pro waht you want to achieve in the game and with your swing e.g. do you want to start from scratch and work right through or are you happy with a small quick fix that allows you to just enjoy the game and get most out of what you have.

The other one is as a result of the above the pro;s repsonse and words will lead you to knowing if he feels he can do the work with what you got method or you'll be able to tell from his language if he wants to rebuild your game. Sounds like you've had a bit of bad luck with who you've had maybe next time your at a clubor range have a chat with a pro and just say to them what you want to achieve they may then either say well lets see what you got and how we get the best out of it or they may simply suggest someone that can.

I find if your up front with them they will work to what you want rather than rip it all apart

 

[tsped83]

Swing flatter, works a treat for me!

I've had good and bad experiences with PGA Pro's. Not every Pro is necessarily a good teacher and I think you need to find one you're comfortable with. The last guy I saw was great and kept everything simple for me in easy to understand steps/drills.

 

[Birchy]

Fact is that you might only want one fault fixed but this can be caused by a chain reaction of other faults. Until you undo them all you wont properly cure the problem.

 

[dufferman]

I've always been up front - I've always told them it's the slice on my driver that is causing the problem in my game.

I've also always given them the benefit of the doubt - I've not walked away after one lesson because they didn't fix it first time, but 6 lessons in and it's still happening makes me think my issues are not being dealt with!!

Also, when I say my head is lifting, I know this is happening because I get 'excited' and want to watch my ball in flight before I've finished with my swing (it normally goes hand in hand with the whole swing being too fast)... I think that is a problem for lots of hackers, not fully completing a swing before they move their head up to see the result.

 

[One Planer]

I've had lessons with 3 guys in the last 2 years. My biggest issue is with my driver - it goes right when I get too fast and lift my head.

Unfortunately, I've learnt this through my own research and trial & error, rather than a pro just telling me. It seems that the guys I've seen (all from different clubs, too) want to 'rebuild my swing' or 'start with the basics'... which is great if I want to get to a Cat 1 golfer, but not so good when I just want to hit the damn thing without slicing it 40 yards right.

I like the way I swing the club, I'm changing things up a bit now to see if I can get more distance, but these are things I can forget about and go back to my 'normal' swing for a game or if it's all going wrong.

I feel that I would have saved a lot more time effort and dosh if one of them would have said "Yes it's this, do that and that then you'll fix the issue".

I'd maybe have gone back to them for learning a bit more about chipping & putting then, rather than doing my research online and in magazines!!

Is it just about them wanting your cash, or do they feel like they should be teaching a 'PGA approved' swing and couldn't just fix an issue?

Discuss.

Only a 40 yard slice eh? :smirk:

I Have nothing but praise for my pro. I went to him with a swing that wasn't repeatable, but got me around the course some days, but not others. If I wanted to improve, which I do, I needed a repeatable swing and not the one I had.

We started off with the basics, simple stuff, posture, grip, alignment etc. Then progressed through the swing.

The way I see it, and I appreciate not everyone will agree with this, is if a teaching pro teaches you "a text book" swing, faults are easier to diagnose and correct.

I've heard it said a good pro will work with what you have and I agree, but what if you already have (.... If it was like what I had) swing wise is erratic and riddled with faults. How can a pro be expected to improve something that may not be possible without major changes?

My swing now, is absolutely nothing like what it was, it's been, pretty much rebuilt from scratch and much, much more consistant.

If you start with the basics at address (Posture, grip, alignemnt etc) you give yourself a good base moving forward. If you then take the club away massively behind your legs, like I did, causing you to be flat at the top, then you work on that aspect until the fault is corrected, then move on.

I suppose it's like trying to correct, in your case, a slice by changing one thing and expecting it to work or making a change to lessen the slice (..... Closing/hooding the face as an example) without addressing what actually causes the slice.

In my mind, its easier to go back to the beginning and let a pro build a repeatable swing around solid basics than try and alther the effect without considering the cause.

 

[dufferman]

Only a 40 yard slice eh? :smirk:

I Have nothing but praise for my pro. I went to him with a swing that wasn't repeatable, but got me around the course some days, but not others. If I wanted to improve, which I do, I needed a repeatable swing and not the one I had.

We started off with the basics, simple stuff, posture, grip, alignment etc. Then progressed through the swing.

The way I see it, and I appreciate not everyone will agree with this, is if a teaching pro teaches you "a text book" swing, faults are easier to diagnose and correct.

I've heard it said a good pro will work with what you have and I agree, but what if you already have (.... If it was like what I had) swing wise is erratic and riddled with faults. How can a pro be expected to improve something that may not be possible without major changes?

My swing now, is absolutely nothing like what it was, it's been, pretty much rebuilt from scratch and much, much more consistant.

If you start with the basics at address (Posture, grip, alignemnt etc) you give yourself a good base moving forward. If you then take the club away massively behind your legs, like I did, causing you to be flat at the top, then you work on that aspect until the fault is corrected, then move on.

I suppose it's like trying to correct, in your case, a slice by changing one thing and expecting it to work or making a change to lessen the slice (..... Closing/hooding the face as an example) without addressing what actually causes the slice.

In my mind, its easier to go back to the beginning and let a pro build a repeatable swing around solid basics than try and alther the effect without considering the cause.

I see where you are coming from, and I would agree if every other club did it, but it just didn't / still doesn't - it's just the driver.

And you got me... it's 140 but I was trying to save face!!!!!!!!!!

 

[One Planer]

I see where you are coming from, and I would agree if every other club did it, but it just didn't / still doesn't - it's just the driver.

And you got me... it's 140 but I was trying to save face!!!!!!!!!!

I'm the same pal. My irons are going great guns just now, wedges are good, putting is great.

19* hybrid is going well, so is the 4 wood, but my driver is still erratic. Sometimes straight, more often I get a stock 10 yard fade, sometimes it flies off at a right angle

I have a lesson on this very thing tonight and hopefully it will get sorted.

 

[CMAC]

Firstly I doubt it's got anything to do with lifting your head. You might be pushing your hips towards the ball which effectively causes your head to raise but that's a different fish to fry. Can't say I've EVER met someone who lifts their head... yet every hacker always claims it to be so (courtesy of Grandad's teachings I guess).

Secondly, if you hit UP on the ball with your driver (which you probably should be trying to do in order to reduce spin and maximise length) with a SQUARE club face.... the ball will slice. That's nothing to do with you - that's PHYSICS.

ANYONE teaching you to line up square to your target with the driver, have a square clubface and hit up on it is teaching you the wrong way - simples.

worth elaborating why you think thats wrong

 

[cookelad]

Problem with the driver is that you've got the most inaccurate clubface (least loft) in the bag attached to the longest shaft in the bag and generally we all tend to give it a little extra so it's going to exaggerate any faults. I would guess (and it is only a guess having not met you or seen your swing) that whatever faults are there with the driver are there with the shorter, more lofted clubs too.

I've made it clear on here a few times that I'm a big advocate of teaching pros and personally I'd take on board what he is/they are telling you it might seem like they are going a long way back but they're doing it to get you playing better going forwards!

Just my humble opinion.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Good post this mate,I've had a few lessons in the past & can see where your coming from. Seems most pros assume you want to have lesson after lesson. It's not like your asking him to turn you into Adam Scott. If I had regular lessons & wasn't playing off single figures I'd be asking why

 

[dufferman]

Good post this mate,I've had a few lessons in the past & can see where your coming from. Seems most pros assume you want to have lesson after lesson. It's not like your asking him to turn you into Adam Scott. If I had regular lessons & wasn't playing off single figures I'd be asking why

I agree - I also feel that sometimes pro's ask you to practice twice / three times a week, which isn't ideal for most people with a 9-5 job!

I too would like to hear JustOne's reasoning that hitting the ball square means it will slice right??

 

[In_The_Rough]

worth elaborating why you think thats wrong

I was wondering that as well. If you think about it ifyour swinging up with a square clubface will this mean the face is opening therefore causing a slice, cant think of any other reason why.

 

[In_The_Rough]

I agree - I also feel that sometimes pro's ask you to practice twice / three times a week, which isn't ideal for most people with a 9-5 job!

I too would like to hear JustOne's reasoning that hitting the ball square means it will slice right??

You have to practice to improve or make changes though surely unless you have a natural talent

 

[thecraw]

Nonsense post.

You can't fix a burst water pipe with sellotape!

 

[bladeplayer]

I agree - I also feel that sometimes pro's ask you to practice twice / three times a week, which isn't ideal for most people with a 9-5 job!

Hope this doesn't come across as rude, apologies if it does , its not meant to, but how do you expect to fix something that's wrong if your not willing to work at it ? , I appreciate you might not have time , if this is the case then your at nothing going to a pro really .. you say you know whats wrong , but do you ? have you heard the saying , give a hungry man a fish you feed him for a day , teach him to fish & you feed him for life , give a golfer a quick fix it will work short term , teach him properly you will give him a swing that works long term

 

[MadAdey]

Sometimes you have to go back to basics to solve the problem, if it is with your setup etc. I had a lesson 3 weeks ago as I wanted to find a bit more consistnecy. He totally changed the way I address the ball and has me standing closer, more upright and taking the club away on a better plane. It still feels a bit weird at times and I hit some duff shots that go 50 yards, but also I am hitting the ball better overall and have had a couple of really good rounds. After 20 years of playing to have things like the basics of my setup changed is strange, but with time it will work.