Why are golf pros so arrogant?

[JustOne]

Considering that the thread is apparently so offensive there seems to be quite a theme running here....

And Thomas Bjorn who was the most miserable sod i've ever met, wouldnt speak to anyone, wouldnt acknowledge anyone.

From what you pick up on the tele, obviously some are more arrogant than others, just as people are in all walks of life i'd say!

C : some are arrogant, but most aren't natural givers emotionally

I agree with the posts that some are arrogant

It is a case of some are, some arent, same with footballers.

I can justify it to an extent, imagine being pestered your whole life. Seve for example loathes people approaching him when he is out for dinner or with his kids, I love the man and totally respect that stance.

Pros I have met who are great, Ian Poulter, Benn Barham, Graeme McDowell, Oliver Wilson, Jeev Milkha Singh, Miguel Angel Jiminez, Lee Westwood plus a few more.

Ignorant ones by the OP definition, Monty, Sergio Garcia, Paul Lawrie, Reteif Goosen.

The king of the arrogant though is Justin Rose, Im not going into the full details but a bob on the nose would be deserved in my eyes.

Ive met a few that are a bit smug

I know of club pro's who are awful and some who are fantastic.

I know of only a few club pros who are a little cocky,

There are however some that think because they can knock a white ball around a chunk of land they are suddenyl better than everyone else and their attitudes suck.

Tour Pro's can be Arrogant and I think its expected in some ways, but not all of them are.

The majority of pro's Ive met are fantastic people (with maybe one or two exceptions over 30 yrs)

I have only ever met one club pro who I would call Really Arrogant,

Surely NONE should be arrogant, especially club pros?
In case you missed it the reason for the thread was as follows...

The reason I ask is that yesterday I saw a couple of people asking questions of a club pro and the guy was a total imbecile! He was so 'couldn't care less' that I genuinely felt sorry for the chaps asking the questions - and I have seen this a LOT from club pros.

I think that SOMETIMES club pros don't realise that 28 handicappers are people too, and equally commited to the game. Just because they lack the knowledge/skills to improve without guidance doesn't mean that they are just to be sneered at or patronised. Very often they are new to the game and even more enthusiastic than many who have been double-bogeying, and groaning about their slice for years!

My 2 cents...

 

[HTL]

What a plonker! Do you walk funny with that massive chip on you shoulder? (mods feel free to remover this, I've had a beer of 12 sssshhhhh told tell smiffy!)

What a stupid post! They are doing their job, after a crap day I give the cold shoulder to whoever, whenever I feel like, end of. Pros have no obligation to you and your fantasy of how they should act, get over yourself.

 

[brendy]

Just to tie this thread up, perhaps you should have made more than two options, the world is very much more analogue, you have expressed your feeling towards all pros in this instance, if you will in digital format.
They are either all one or the other with your train of thought. This represents your feelings towards this one guy manifested in a poll which was sure to get some folks backs up and really serves no purpose other than seeing who else is polarised either with or against your idea. I think those that fell for it should think about whether their posts served any purpose as they were never going to be taken seriously by you as your mind is made up.
This thread will more than likely be deleted in the morning so any further posts will probably be futile.

 

[JustOne]

This represents your feelings towards this one guy manifested in a poll which was sure to get some folks backs up and really serves no purpose other than seeing who else is polarised either with or against your idea.

It's an observation taken over many years but the most recent instigated the post.

Many people in the thread have said that some are and some aren't - there is no right or wrong answer... it's a discussion. Some can agree, some can disagree and some can be in the middle. As it happens there have been quite a few responses pertaining to the arrogance of some pros and some that have said that they haven't experienced anything out of the ordinary. So no big deal.

From the responses I can see that I'm not alone in my thinking as lots of people seem to have experience of similar, so I take something from that - it's not just ME that thinks so.

The post OBVIOUSLY wasn't directed at Bobmac as we can all clearly see what a helpful chap he is, it is merely an opinion, right or wrong it's MY opinion - can I not post that to confirm/negate/debate my own thoughts?

 

[CrapHacker]

Surely NONE should be arrogant, especially club pros?
In case you missed it the reason for the thread was as follows...

The reason I ask is that yesterday I saw a couple of people asking questions of a club pro and the guy was a total imbecile! He was so 'couldn't care less' that I genuinely felt sorry for the chaps asking the questions - and I have seen this a LOT from club pros.

I think that SOMETIMES club pros don't realise that 28 handicappers are people too, and equally commited to the game. Just because they lack the knowledge/skills to improve without guidance doesn't mean that they are just to be sneered at or patronised. Very often they are new to the game and even more enthusiastic than many who have been double-bogeying, and groaning about their slice for years!

My 2 cents...

Ya daft pillock

Surely NONE should be arrogant

Surely noone should be arrogant....... or greedy, or selfish, or slothful etc etc

but people are, in fact noone is perfect, not even you.

In case you missed it the reason for the thread was as follows... I think that SOMETIMES club pros don't realise that 28 handicappers are people too

So on the basis of a straw poll of, errrrr ONE person, you're willing to tar the whole profession as arrogant. Ok, so you've seen it 'a lot', have you ever seen people treat shopkeepers as lowlifes ? Have you ever seen players treat pros like they were nobodies, just there to serve them, and not being worthy of respect in return.

To use your logic.

Yesterday I saw a member try to use a junior pro to solve his swing problem. The young pro sent him away with a flea in his ear. The new senior pro ( the one doing my assessment ) picked him up on this, and berated him. However the explanation came back that this particular guy always tried to use the pros as personal coaches without ever having a formal lesson. He thought it was ok to get his swing analysed every time he entered the pro shop, without ever paying for tuition. Was the young pro arrogant ? Or was the player a *** ? There are two ways of looking at it.

My 2 cents...

Nope. Not worth it. Keep your money in your pocket this time. I said earlier that sometimes you like to deliberately wind people up, I think this time it's backfired on you, and it's YOU that looks the fool in this particular case.

That's not to say you shouldn't keep asking the questions, but maybe learn when to back down and admit you're wrong.

 

[CrapHacker]

This thread will more than likely be deleted in the morning so any further posts will probably be futile.

Now THAT attitude is arrogant

It's already been stated that the thread doesn't break any forum rules, so any deletion would be unreasonable.

 

[CrapHacker]

Many people in the thread have said that some are and some aren't - there is no right or wrong answer... it's a discussion. Nope. Your question wasn't phrased in such a way as to open debate. It was a statement of intent. Noone other than yourself has said that pros are arrogant. The fact that you have twisted some comments to fit your viewpoint says nothing against the posters, but it does raise questions about how you see the world

Some can agree, some can disagree and some can be in the middle. As it happens there have been quite a few responses pertaining to the arrogance of some pros and some that have said that they haven't experienced anything out of the ordinary. So no big deal. I've checked, and NOONE has agreed with you. Even you. Pros ARE NOT ARROGANT. SOME PEOPLE are arrogant. And the fact is that some people do consider it a big deal. Are you too insensitive to realise that ?

From the responses I can see that I'm not alone in my thinking as lots of people seem to have experience of similar, so I take something from that - it's not just ME that thinks so. Doh !!

The post OBVIOUSLY wasn't directed at Bobmac as we can all clearly see what a helpful chap he is, it is merely an opinion, right or wrong it's MY opinion - can I not post that to confirm/negate/debate my own thoughts? Of COURSE it's aimed at Bobmac - he's a pro, and your thread is aimed at ALL pros. The fact that you won't back down from your stance is just repetitious verification of that. Of course you are allowed your opinion. Yes you are allowed to post your opinion. But I'm surprised you haven't negated your thoughts by now, if you read all the responses carefully you will realise that you stand alone on this one.

 

[JustOne]

To use your logic.

Yesterday I saw a member try to use a junior pro to solve his swing problem. The young pro sent him away with a flea in his ear. The new senior pro ( the one doing my assessment ) picked him up on this, and berated him. However the explanation came back that this particular guy always tried to use the pros as personal coaches without ever having a formal lesson. He thought it was ok to get his swing analysed every time he entered the pro shop, without ever paying for tuition. Was the young pro arrogant ? Or was the player a *** ? There are two ways of looking at it.

This seems like a good example, not one that is unheard of. Couldn't the young pro simply say...

"If you book a lesson I'd be more than happy to go through your swing with you"

...and that would be that? I don't see why he needs to give the customer the flea in the ear part.

When you get on a bus and ask if it stops at blah,blah,blah does the bus driver leave you with a flea in your ear, even though 50 people per day ask him the same question?..or a policeman, or a nurse, or a teacher, or a waiter in a restaurant etc etc...

Being a golf pro surely is a people industry where the customer is always right, and should be treated without contempt?

 

[CrapHacker]

This seems like a good example, not one that is unheard of. Couldn't the young pro simply say...

"If you book a lesson I'd be more than happy to go through your swing with you"

...and that would be that? I don't see why he needs to give the customer the flea in the ear part.

When you get on a bus and ask if it stops at blah,blah,blah does the bus driver leave you with a flea in your ear, even though 50 people per day ask him the same question?..or a policeman, or a nurse, or a teacher, or a waiter in a restaurant etc etc...

Being a golf pro surely is a people industry where the customer is always right, and should be treated without contempt?

Possibly. But on the other hand, I don't know if this guy has had that conversation once, twice, many times, or never in the past.

It's not normally 50 people a day asking for a favour, it's one guy asking for it 50 times.

I'm not saying either that the young pro was right, just that I was there for the second part of the conversation, which proved there were two different opinions on it.

But it's your last point which is wrong.

The customer isn't always right. If the customer is rude / arrogant in his dealings in the first place, he has no right to demand respect in return.

But either way, it still contradicts your original opinion. You definately said 'Why are golf pros so arrogant' not 'Why are SOME golf pros so arrogant'. That one word makes a huge difference to the rest of the conversation.

 

[brendy]

This thread will more than likely be deleted in the morning so any further posts will probably be futile.

Now THAT attitude is arrogant

It's already been stated that the thread doesn't break any forum rules, so any deletion would be unreasonable.

Craphacker, I do try my best, usually im a mild mannered fella, but by night (actually, early morning and with a dose od syndol, I turn into Captain Arro-gent!
Seriously though, the ortiginal poster has even admitted himself that "some" people have voted that "some" pros are arrogant. I know a few guys in IT that are geeky, not all are, I certainly am not as IT comes waaay down my list of priorities outside working hours.
For all he knows, the pro could have had a family bereavement or crisis and hasnt got his mind on the job. Im not saying thats the only reason but certainly could explain his demeanour. If he was like that all of the time, would he still be in his job?

 

[JustOne]

But either way, it still contradicts your original opinion. You definately said 'Why are golf pros so arrogant' not 'Why are SOME golf pros so arrogant'. That one word makes a huge difference to the rest of the conversation.

If you take the title of the thread literally then I agree with that, I [of course] conceed that the thread title could be more objective. However, it does say on the original post "Are golf pros arrogant, if so why?" which I feel leaves the answer up to the person replying.

"My club pro is great" or "I've never met a more helpful guy than blah blah..." would have been as good a reply as any. It would certainly HELP me see a different side of the coin.

As you say yourself, only yesterday you saw someone leaving a flea in the ear of a 'potential' customer.
Which makes me feel that the post rings even more true, it happens a LOT. WHY do they do that??? No one else would run a business like that or treat their potential customers like that... would they??

Personally I find it frustrating (perhaps that's the point of the post)... there I am thinking I could do with a lesson and I see this guy prowling around like God's gift, talking down to people (or whatever) and it makes me not want to pay for a lesson! If they were more approachable, or tolerant then surely it's a win win situation?

FWIW: Javier at the David Leadbetter in La Cala was fantastic, couldn't have met a nicer guy.

If a moderator wants to insert the word SOME into the thread title it wouldn't be a problem for me, definately not if it helps mellow some of the responses.

 

[SammmeBee]

Arrogance is part of what makes most professional sportsmen as good as they are....

Just look at Poulter - arrogance personified.....

 

[vig]

Fine line between confidence and arrogance

 

[medwayjon]

Fine line between confidence and arrogance

Totally, I get told I am an arrogant bar-steward sometimes when it comes to certain things, even my wife comments on it.

Nothing wrong with self-confidence though.

 

[CrapHacker]

If you take the title of the thread literally then I agree with that, I [of course] conceed that the thread title could be more objective. However, it does say on the original post "Are golf pros arrogant, if so why?" which I feel leaves the answer up to the person replying.

"My club pro is great" or "I've never met a more helpful guy than blah blah..." would have been as good a reply as any. It would certainly HELP me see a different side of the coin.

As you say yourself, only yesterday you saw someone leaving a flea in the ear of a 'potential' customer.
Which makes me feel that the post rings even more true, it happens a LOT. WHY do they do that??? No one else would run a business like that or treat their potential customers like that... would they??

Personally I find it frustrating (perhaps that's the point of the post)... there I am thinking I could do with a lesson and I see this guy prowling around like God's gift, talking down to people (or whatever) and it makes me not want to pay for a lesson! If they were more approachable, or tolerant then surely it's a win win situation?

FWIW: Javier at the David Leadbetter in La Cala was fantastic, couldn't have met a nicer guy.

If a moderator wants to insert the word SOME into the thread title it wouldn't be a problem for me, definately not if it helps mellow some of the responses.

Okies, glad that one is settled good and proper.

Now to what I think is the main thing here.

Some people are naturally arrogant. Maybe the guys you are talking about are like that all the time.

But I'm pretty sure the guy I'm talking about isn't like that to the vast majority of people that walk through his shop. He just reacted ( rightly or wrongly - it's not for either of us to say ) to someone he thought was taking the proverbial.

Personally I can be arrogant. Big headed. A right bolshey bullshitter, some might say.

So I tend to deliberately put myself down in company to make sure that I'm not putting potential customers off. ( So much so that 2 people independantly have recently told me that I should have more confidence in myself. )

But if I'm wound up the wrong way, I'll return fire. I'm noone's skivvy, and if someone suggests I am, they'll walk off wondering what hit them. Yes I lose a customer. But I don't want that sort of customer in the first place.

I honestly think that in every walk of life some people are truly arrogant. But most are uncomfortable, shy, or tired.

Cue golf pros. If I'm having a lesson, I'll go to one I feel comfortable with. Some are better than others at making me feel at ease. That's the guy that will get my hard earned. If someone is truely arrogant, they won't last much longer, especially in the modern climate. But I'm sure that many of the guys you aren't sure about just aren't very good people people ( if you get what I mean )

Although it's impossible to prove, I'd say that on the showing of the pros I've been speaking to over the last couple of months ( about 10 including juniors - that must be most of them then, eh

Oh, and I'm sure the situation is totally different with tour pros as well. Some will shut themselves inside that shell ( like Faldo ) some will get fed up with stupid questions ( like Monty ) but the modern breed like Rory should be being trained in their people skills because you're right, it IS getting to be more and more important.

 

[theeaglehunter]

I personally have never, ever witnessed a club professional acting in a conceited fashion when dealing with a member, or any other potential customer. To me any teaching professional I have experienced is the dead opposite, and keen to portray themselves in a light where arrogance is by no means a character trait.

I can understand that some tour pros will come across as arrogant but I just can't understand this comment in regard to club professionals (For one point you would have thought they would avoid arrogance in order to prevent a loss of trade etc). However I do accept that it may be true (I'm not calling anyone a liar) I am just yet to experience it for myself, and I do find it an idea hard to get my head round.

Out of the tour professionals I have met/ encountered though all have been highly commendable in their actions, and a pleasure to talk to. They are Alistair Forsyth, Thomas Levet, Paul Casey, Rory Mcilroy, Ross Fisher and Lee Westwood.

I have been told that Thomas Bjorn is a miserable so and so though!

 

[madandra]

I have given up on this one !!!

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