WHS Survey in 2024 - Have Any Results Been Published?

[Crow]

To quote directly from EG :-

Global Survey - Key Takeaways from English Golfers

• Mixed Sentiment - Flexibility & inclusiveness of WHS is recognised vs those who think its too complex relying heavily on honesty
• Complexity – Many find things too complex when compared to the previous system especially those of a certain demographic
• Manipulation – Most commonly mentioned issue This is not WHS but golfers not following rules and their responsibilities

I think you can see this that fundamentally, as expected, the results are a mixed bag but the overall view from EG of these opinions is
- some people like it, some don't
- older people don't like change
- manipulation isn't a system issue, it can be solved by education and vigilance bu volunteers.

I'm surprised that EG have derived that older people don't like change from key takeaways shown that have no mention of age.

 

[wjemather]

I would just like to see a commitment, and more importantly, action from EG to increase the help given to committees, particularly from better use of technology.

If, for example, they updated the APP to display an error message when an attempt to create a scorecard within 90 minutes of sunset for an 18 hole round (30 for a 9 hole round), saying "You are unable to create a score at this time as all scores must be registered before a round is played" - then this would save committees from having to regularly check reports and contact 'forgetful' members then delete scores but also the players would also be educated at the same time. These sort of simple fixes to help the volunteers and educate players would make the system work better.

I think there could certainly be a facility for committees to specify a time window for acceptable scores, including in relation to sunrise/sunset times. As well as preventing rounds seemingly being played in the dark, it would also make it simpler to manage days which are partly given over to comps in unauthorised formats but open to General Play at other times.

 

[D-S]

I'm surprised that EG have derived that older people don't like change from key takeaways shown that have no mention of age.

I took it from the phrase ‘a certain demographic’.

 

[Crow]

I took it from the phrase ‘a certain demographic’.

So is it your overall view or EG's?

 

[Backache]

What is the difference between me attesting your score for a competition round and a non competition round?

I played on Saturday and Sunday at my course from the same tees. The course was set up exactly the same for both days. Saturday was a general play round. Sunday a comp. How are they any different?

Competitions are frequently drawn so the person attesting is generally neutral. If you seek a high score to raise your handicap there are fewer comps available to do it in. It is far easier to find an accomplice to attest your score outwith competition.

 

[wjemather]

Competitions are frequently drawn so the person attesting is generally neutral. If you seek a high score to raise your handicap there are fewer comps available to do it in. It is far easier to find an accomplice to attest your score outwith competition.

You mean at your club? And an ever decreasing number of others, as folk would rather play with their mates than have their weekend potentially ruined by a nightmare playing partner. At many clubs, almost no comps are drawn, if any.

At ours, aside from a few semi-random group allocations with the seniors and ladies sections (not really drawn, as they're swimming in the same very small pool of 12-20 players every week), only one round of golf a year is truly drawn - the 2nd round of club champs.

Also, in drawn comps, partners generally don't know each others game, so they wouldn't have a clue if someone was sandbagging to inflate their handicap - much easier to get away with it under these conditions, surely? And without the need for a complicit accomplice.

 

[D-S]

So is it your overall view or EG's?

It’s not my view and certainly not personal experience as I am part of that demographic and it doesn’t apply to me. The phrase comes from the slide (from an EG workshop) that I transposed in post #35 and the interpretation comes from my memory of the commentary on the slide at the workshop.

 

[clubchamp98]

I'm surprised that EG have derived that older people don't like change from key takeaways shown that have no mention of age.

It’s not age imo but handicap.

Lots of high cap older people love it.
Lots of low cap older people hate it

But there are many more high than low so can’t see how they came to that conclusion.

 

[WorldHandicapSystem]

You mean at your club? And an ever decreasing number of others, as folk would rather play with their mates than have their weekend potentially ruined by a nightmare playing partner. At many clubs, almost no comps are drawn, if any.

At ours, aside from a few semi-random group allocations with the seniors and ladies sections (not really drawn, as they're swimming in the same very small pool of 12-20 players every week), only one round of golf a year is truly drawn - the 2nd round of club champs.

Also, in drawn comps, partners generally don't know each others game, so they wouldn't have a clue if someone was sandbagging to inflate their handicap - much easier to get away with it under these conditions, surely? And without the need for a complicit accomplice.

That’s pretty much the same at all of the clubs I have been a member at. My current club for the club champs we go out in handicap order on day one. Then by score on day 2. There are a small number of board comps that are drawn. Other than that you play with whoever you like.

 

[Imurg]

That’s pretty much the same at all of the clubs I have been a member at. My current club for the club champs we go out in handicap order on day one. Then by score on day 2. There are a small number of board comps that are drawn. Other than that you play with whoever you like.

Very similar at my club....

 

[clubchamp98]

That’s pretty much the same at all of the clubs I have been a member at. My current club for the club champs we go out in handicap order on day one. Then by score on day 2. There are a small number of board comps that are drawn. Other than that you play with whoever you like.

Yes we have no drawn comps

Second round of Club Champs is now in first round groups to save time.
Golf is all about saving time now because players are getting slower.

 

[AussieKB]

In OZ you organise your own four.....even in Open's you can request to play with your mates.

 

[wjemather]

In OZ you organise your own four.....even in Open's you can request to play with your mates.

Yep, other than (most, but not all) scratch events, most opens are the same - choose your tee time and play with your mates.

And this is how it should be. It's not our job and these are not really serious competitions. It's a hobby and we play for fun, with the comps being there to add a little extra competitive enjoyment for those who want it.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

We have a couple of comps where it’s drawn after putting yourself into a zone

Our members want to play with their friends

 

[D-S]

That’s pretty much the same at all of the clubs I have been a member at. My current club for the club champs we go out in handicap order on day one. Then by score on day 2. There are a small number of board comps that are drawn. Other than that you play with whoever you like.

Same as us for our Club Champs, which is our only drawn competition.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

We have a couple of comps where it’s drawn after putting yourself into a zone

Our members want to play with their friends

In my experiences that is where a lot of issues arise. Mates not penalising mates for obvious rule infringements and "dodgy" counting on a bad hole so its a 7 or 8 and not a 10

All our comps are drawn. Even with GP cards audits are done t make sure an attester was booked into the same tee time as the player they are signing for

 

[Crow]

Ours are all drawn, seniors section completely, club comps you request a time zone.

Drawn is best in IMHO, it's what separates it from social golf.

 

[peld]

i saw the R&A put out a notice about promoting honest and fair use of WHS today....

https://www.bunkered.co.uk/golf-news/campaign-ra-combat-whs-cheating/

I was reminded about a guy in my club who falls in to the "vanity handicap" category so had a look at his scores.

He is 5.8 Index - all his counters are General Play. His competition scores would give him a 14.4 index. Why would you do this to yourself ?!

 

[rulie]

i saw the R&A put out a notice about promoting honest and fair use of WHS today....

https://www.bunkered.co.uk/golf-news/campaign-ra-combat-whs-cheating/

I was reminded about a guy in my club who falls in to the "vanity handicap" category so had a look at his scores.

He is 5.8 Index - all his counters are General Play. His competition scores would give him a 14.4 index. Why would you do this to yourself ?!

Ego.

 

[clubchamp98]

i saw the R&A put out a notice about promoting honest and fair use of WHS today....

https://www.bunkered.co.uk/golf-news/campaign-ra-combat-whs-cheating/

I was reminded about a guy in my club who falls in to the "vanity handicap" category so had a look at his scores.

He is 5.8 Index - all his counters are General Play. His competition scores would give him a 14.4 index. Why would you do this to yourself ?!

Because you can.
That might get him into some good opens.

Havnt seen the flip chart but asking golfers not to cheat and comittiees to be more vigilant dosnt seem like doing much.