WHS Score recording system

[Wildboy370]

A subject that has been discussed many times so apologies if this has been covered before.
I am on the organising committee for the WHS at my club. One thing we cannot get answers from England Golf about is what system will be used to log scores and how these will be entered etc.
We have been told there is and App from them, but can’t find it anywhere, we use a terminal, but not been told what terminal and what operating systems, do we swipe or log in, do we need more than one terminal. Also how will any system know you are playing a friendly round on the same day that a competition is being played as all scores for the 24 hour period affect the daily handicap adjustment due to course conditions etc.
Also if we go abroad and enter a score how does this link to the handicap system we are using here in the UK? As I understand there are numerous systems up and down the country we currently use to log scores and all are somehow linked, as when you play away your handicap is adjusted via the one you use locally, so will the world systems be linked somehow also.
Basically we have the usual very little help from our governing body, and with only two months before this becomes live we want to a presentation to members giving details of how this all works.
Any help advice and places to look will be gratefully accepted.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Let's try to unpack this.

Your club is presumably using software currently to enter scores and manage handicaps. This will normally be provided by a third party software vendor (often referred to as an ISV). This software links to the CDH systems run by England Golf. There will be WHS compliant versions of these systems for WHS go-live and so your club will presumably update their existing software to retain this functionality. Each club is required to have at least 2 touch screen terminals to allow players to enter competitions / scores etc. You would normally access your competitions to sign-in via a swipe card or index menu. The software to run this will be determined by the software the club choose. This is no different to how things are now in most cases.

Several of these vendors also offer an application which will run on a mobile phone or a PC/tablet. For example we use Club2000 V1 as our base software and they provide HowDidIDo as their members interface. This will allow members to sign-in and enter scores in competitions as will as registering aa acceptable round and enter the score after playing.

Only acceptable rounds impact handicaps and whilst it's anticipated all singles competitions will be designated as such you will have a choice to designate a round as one to count for handicap in a similar way to the way you do it for supplementary scores. Again it's anticipated this will be done on-line or through a smartphone / PC application. All acceptable scores from both members and visitors will be used in the calculation of PCC (there are some caveats).

As far as scores from abroad are concerned the answer is yes they will be integrated - but not yet! The integration will happen post WHS implementation and will use your CDH number as the key to ensuring scores are added to your playing record.

As far as away scores within CONGU are concerned the scores will come back to you home club in the usual way and your handicap committee will have to accept them (or not) as at present. Remember the scores will need to be entered at the course you played on the day you played using their screen or your smartphone / PC app so no physical cards need to be returned. This will work regardless of the software the club uses vs your home club (as now).

Hope this helps and to be fair to England Golf there is lots (and lots) of information available and there have been many briefing held to club officials over the last 12 months. I appreciate it's difficult at present but hopefully things will ease as we approach November 2nd.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Let's try to unpack this.

Your club is presumably using software currently to enter scores and manage handicaps. This will normally be provided by a third party software vendor (often referred to as an ISV). This software links to the CDH systems run by England Golf. There will be WHS compliant versions of these systems for WHS go-live and so your club will presumably update their existing software to retain this functionality. Each club is required to have at least 2 touch screen terminals to allow players to enter competitions / scores etc. You would normally access your competitions to sign-in via a swipe card or index menu. The software to run this will be determined by the software the club choose. This is no different to how things are now in most cases.

Several of these vendors also offer an application which will run on a mobile phone or a PC/tablet. For example we use Club2000 V1 as our base software and they provide HowDidIDo as their members interface. This will allow members to sign-in and enter scores in competitions as will as registering aa acceptable round and enter the score after playing.

Only acceptable rounds impact handicaps and whilst it's anticipated all singles competitions will be designated as such you will have a choice to designate a round as one to count for handicap in a similar way to the way you do it for supplementary scores. Again it's anticipated this will be done on-line or through a smartphone / PC application. All acceptable scores from both members and visitors will be used in the calculation of PCC (there are some caveats).

As far as scores from abroad are concerned the answer is yes they will be integrated - but not yet! The integration will happen post WHS implementation and will use your CDH number as the key to ensuring scores are added to your playing record.

As far as away scores within CONGU are concerned the scores will come back to you home club in the usual way and your handicap committee will have to accept them (or not) as at present. Remember the scores will need to be entered at the course you played on the day you played using their screen or your smartphone / PC app so no physical cards need to be returned. This will work regardless of the software the club uses vs your home club (as now).

Hope this helps and to be fair to England Golf there is lots (and lots) of information available and there have been many briefing held to club officials over the last 12 months. I appreciate it's difficult at present but hopefully things will ease as we approach November 2nd.

interesting - remind me - what's PCC? The rest I understand

 

[Swango1980]

interesting - remind me - what's PCC? The rest I understand

Playing Conditions Calculation (a bit like the CSS at present). It will be based on all scores entered that day, with the aim of being able to account for playing conditions on that day (i.e. weather, course setup)

 

[jim8flog]

interesting - remind me - what's PCC? The rest I understand

AS per swango plus there needs to a least 8 scores returned on the day for one to be calculated.

If all players on the day fail to get their scores on to the computer for some reason there will be a another PCC for the day they do. So different players in the same competition could end up with a different basis for the handicap adjustment calculation. Also if there is a significant deterioration in course conditions during the day, say due to weather, there needs to be 2 PCCs calculated.

 

[jim8flog]

Also how will any system know you are playing a friendly round on the same day that a competition is being played as all scores for the 24 hour period affect the daily handicap adjustment due to course conditions etc.
.

Assuming by friendly you mean a round preregistered for handicap purposes (see MJCs post paragraph 4)

The sytem does not know. All scores submitted on the day are included in the PCC.

 

[rulefan]

If all players on the day fail to get their scores on to the computer for some reason there will be a another PCC for the day they do.

I'm not sure about this. See Interpretations 5.6 Note 3

 

[jim8flog]

I'm not sure about this. See Interpretations 5.6 Note 3

Are you quoting the wrong bit of my post?

Are you referring to my quote about separate PCCs in one day

I was going by 5.6/2 first dot point specifically re the weather.

 

[rulefan]

5.6/1 Note 3

 

[mikejohnchapman]

5.6/1 Note 3

I could see the circumstances where you may want to calculate a separate PCC if you have an elite event taking place on a course where you also have others playing an acceptable round. However, I can't see the point in having multiple PCCs during a day because the weather closes in - surely that's just the luck of the draw? Who would make the call on this and how would you determin the time used to split the players? Sign-in time, score entry time, ...?

 

[Swango1980]

I could see the circumstances where you may want to calculate a separate PCC if you have an elite event taking place on a course where you also have others playing an acceptable round. However, I can't see the point in having multiple PCCs during a day because the weather closes in - surely that's just the luck of the draw? Who would make the call on this and how would you determin the time used to split the players? Sign-in time, score entry time, ...?

It's a fair point. I wonder if they implemented it simply because in the UK, weather can change so drastically from morning to late afternoon, and therefore it was reasonable to do. After all, most competitions currently are played within 2-3 hours from 1st to last group, so yes, luck of the draw will play a part to some extent. Whereas, an argument for a separate PCC might be made it, say it rained all morning, early afternoon when a competition went out, but cleared up at lunch, and then weather was fine for those who went out after work.

But, it is a good question, that even if it is appropriate, how is it determined. Is it automatically done by looking at the scores that come in? Does it have to be flagged manually? If it is done in sign in time, what if a player forgets to sign in (many still do at our place when playing a competition). If it is done by score entry time, what if someone played in the morning, but didn't enter score until later that night.

Is this just another thing that makes WHS a little more complicated in the fact that more importance is placed on a player signing in, or when they submit/enter their score, compared to now, where I receive supplementary cards anything from immediately after the round (via e-mail) to a week after the round.

 

[rulefan]

Is this just another thing that makes WHS a little more complicated in the fact that more importance is placed on a player signing in, or when they submit/enter their score, compared to now, where I receive supplementary cards anything from immediately after the round (via e-mail) to a week after the round.

I suspect you will far less of this as more players get into the use of an app for dynamic scoring. NB I didn't say all.

 

[jim8flog]

5.6/1 Note 3

Do you have a different book to the one that is downloaded

5.6/1 3 in the downloaded version

3. Establish how many players scored better or worse than expected on the
day.

 

[rulefan]

Do you have a different book to the one that is downloaded

5.6/1 3 in the downloaded version

3. Establish how many players scored better or worse than expected on the
day.

Read further down to the "Notes:" on page 56 (before 5.6/2)

 

[jim8flog]

Read further down to the "Notes:" on page 56 (before 5.6/2)

There is no 'Notes' in the downloaded section

I cannot read anything in in 5.6 that contradicts what is said in 5.6/2

 

[rulefan]

From Page 55




From Page 56

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Sorry to be dull but what publication are these taken from?

 

[rulefan]

Sorry to be dull but what publication are these taken from?

The CONGU/England Golf version of the WHS 'Rules of Handicapping'

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Thanks.

 

[Old Skier]

As it’s an automatic process if a delayed card from the day/days before is entered, I presume the PCC will be taken into account.