If you cannot place and collect any due prize, you are not included. Competing but not eligible for prizes is a silly hybrid. If you cant win, you're not in.
WHS doesn't work
- Thread starter Captain_Black.
- Start date
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Exactly a handicap system that needs divisions is fundamentally flawed.
Its not inclusion either though. Its coming along as a passenger rather than really included.
IanM
Journeyman Pro
- Joined
- May 18, 2009
- Messages
- 13,777
- Location
- Monmouthshire, UK via Guildford!
Not so sure... I played other sports. There was a development pathway in all of them! I never felt excluded, it set me a target
wjemather
Well-known member
If Anfield was your local amateur football or cricket club in need of a player for their Sunday 4th XI, I'm certain you could.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
I think after yesterdays preformance I might still get a game.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
Sweeping statement that is not entirely true with regard to "free to do".
"Unfair" handicapping that knowingly advantages some but not others is a financial fraud if there is organised collection and redistribution of money.
Not applying 95% allowance in a large group could be said to be unfairly advantaging the higher handicap players. I don't know of any test cases or legal challenges as yet.
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
Bit off topic but... Saw a few posts mention working out or calculating 95% etc. Is this really a manual thing in UK?
I know out here we don't have many courses in comparison, but the national federation handicap app has a handicap calculator built in that lists every course, every set of tees for 18 holes and options for front 9 or back 9 (again off all tees) and lists the individuals course handicap and 95% playing handicap for each variable based on their current handicap index
You just open app, go to calculator, pick course/tees and number of holes and it lists both handicap at 100% & 95% values for that specific player. is this not a thing in UK?
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
I believe there are a few such apps here in UK.
My experience of my home club is that since the launch of WHS the majority of players simply choose to ignore 95% at every opportunity to do so in social golf.
They don't like the idea of "losing a shot".
Some people are very slow to learn, adapt to changes or change their conceptions.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 15717
Guest
Some clubs have boards that will show the various handicap allowances. The MyEG app will show your 100% allowance. When playing a comp, at least at my club, the 95% is printed on the scorecard already. With the 2023 rules change, I don't think there is a requirement to state your PH on the card at all anymore....so people can just play, write down a number, and enter the card.
doublebogey7
Head Pro
I believe there are a few such apps here in UK.
My experience of my home club is that since the launch of WHS the majority of players simply choose to ignore 95% at every opportunity to do so in social golf.
They don't like the idea of "losing a shot".
Some people are very slow to learn, adapt to changes or change their conceptions.
The 95% playing handicap allowance is only a requirement in large field events. Now the rules don't define "large" but I don't think anybody would interpret it as anything less than 20.
RichA
Well-known member
The published comp start sheets at ours show player, HI, CH, PH.
Once the cards are in, somebody enters the scores on the computer which spits out the results.
Once the cards are in, somebody enters the scores on the computer which spits out the results.
IanM
Journeyman Pro
- Joined
- May 18, 2009
- Messages
- 13,777
- Location
- Monmouthshire, UK via Guildford!
My experience of my home club is that since the launch of WHS the majority of players simply choose to ignore 95% at every opportunity to do so in social golf.
They don't like the idea of "losing a shot".
Some people are very slow to learn, adapt to changes or change their conceptions.
Funny how different clubs can be, I've never come across this. (Ignoring the 95%, I mean. )
Last edited:
Teebs
Newbie
I'm in the same situation and I have to start again with 3 cards for an initial WHS and then more cards to get a better picture of HC..
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
Many roll ups at my club over the year with more than 30 players.
wjemather
Well-known member
Of course it is. They can use whatever handicap system they choose - as agreed by the group with any new members agreeing to it. It has always been this way.
The USGA, CONGU, Golf Australia, etc. - all their legacy handicap systems flavoured low handicappers by design. The implication of what you are now saying, is that competition organisers using those systems were being fraudulent.
rosecott
Money List Winner
An update.
On the player's first outing with his resurrected handicap, he registered a score differential of 14.6 and was promptly reduced to 12.6 HI. He has since submitted a General Play differential of 21.7.
As far as I can see, WHS does work.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
Please do not put words into my mouth by way of, "what you are saying is".
We have rules of handicapping provided to us.
Deliberately circumventing those rules to advantage some with redistribution of money is risking fraudulent activity.
Agreeing to join a group without the full knowledge and understanding of the misconduct that is occurring is not agreeing to be a victim of that misconduct. This has always been the way.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Indeed
What I was simply saying was that, in your players case, they were given an Index of 17.0, as WHS found their old handicap. However, that is simply a placeholder. Sure, there is no need for submitting 3 cards, as their initial index is 17.0, with no scores on their record. However, once 3 scores are submitted, their WHS Index will be exactly as it would have been if they just handed in 3 cards anyway. So, if this chap, who starts with a 17.0 Index then hands in his first 3 cards, Score Diff 25.0, 28.0 and 30.0 (for example), his Index would be 23.0. The 17.0 becomes irrelevant
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Neither had I…until Saturday when I discovered that the rollup comp I‘ve played in for years might be PH = CH.
ETA - I have raised with one of the rollup organisers that for as long as…I have been playing and calculating for others their PH as 95% of CH in accordance with club guidelines. It might for only be a shot for 10-28 CHs, but that’s not the point. In any case I will ask the question next week.
Last edited:
