WHS doesn't work

Captain_Black. said:
Scratching my head this season looking at the incredible scores coming in.
So I had a look back through the results.
Turns out that with the exception of our Club Champs, which was a Gross comp, nobody with a handicap under 16 has won a comp all season.
Indeed the vast majority of the top 5 finishers in all comps have had handicaps in excess of 20.
Ok, the ground conditions have favoured the shorter hitters, but really!!!
It seems to me, once a handicap exceeds 18 anyone lower than that will struggle to compete.

Apart from the usual suspects who i'm sure are maintaining a high handicap which sadly exist at all clubs, it's quite incredible.
As policing handicaps on an individual basis is impossible, I think the only answer is to split every comp into handicap divisions & split the prize pot accordingly.

Thoughts?
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I suggest you look at pre-WHS results for comparison before you cite WHS as the cause! At the clubs I've belonged to, Divisions have existed purely to counter the tendency for mid-high cappers to dominate stableford or nett results! And the stretching of maximum handicaps from 28 to 54 has exacerbated that! Pretty easy for an improving high handicapper to shoot 5-8 or even more better than their handicap, which would be pretty much impossible for a low capper to match!

So are the comps run in Divisions?
 
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Captain_Black. said:
Yes.
I've played golf with most of the H/C Committee.
They are fully aware of what's going on, I could say lots more (all factual) about my observations & a bit of history (it's been going on for quite a while) but obviously I have to be careful what I say.
Click to expand...

I'm somewhat perplexed then as to why they have not taken any action.
 
Was sceptical on the whole whs system but I’m no convinced it’s flawed. 27hc come in with 47points and gets cut 2 last week, he now shoots 48 points off 25!

36 points in todays comp would face earned you 32-40th place.

we have a guy off +1 and based off recent scores he needs to shoot 57 gross to be in with a chance of a top 3 based on the last few weeks scores
 
Weird one last week a chap playing off 29 comes in 2nd with 41pts.

Handicap Index moves from 28.9 to 29.0, I know it’s one of that it’s just the statistics, but the situation is nuts!
 
Oddsocks said:
Was sceptical on the whole whs system but I’m no convinced it’s flawed. 27hc come in with 47points and gets cut 2 last week, he now shoots 48 points off 25!

36 points in todays comp would face earned you 32-40th place.

we have a guy off +1 and based off recent scores he needs to shoot 57 gross to be in with a chance of a top 3 based on the last few weeks scores
Click to expand...
Such things happen with improving players, and your handicap committee should be keeping on top of it, but it's virtually impossible to do anything on the evidence of a single score.

Course Rating and Par (assuming you are playing from rated tees at this time of year) are required details to be able to respond appropriately. For all we know par for your course is 60, and 43 points are needed to play to handicap.
 
wjemather said:
Course Rating and Par (assuming you are playing from rated tees at this time of year) are required details to be able to respond appropriately. For all we know par for your course is 60, and 43 points are needed to play to handicap.
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If only we had CR-Par we wouldn’t need this further detail.
Almost every time people describe their performance they always compare it to Par never to CR so we have no way of knowing how good or bad the performance is.
 
We had a texas scramble over 12 holes today. Par is 47, nett 25 in !!!!! We had 10 gross birdies and 2 pars and are three quarters down the field. We'd have needed 8 gross eagles and 4 birdies to tie.
 
Junior said:
We had a texas scramble over 12 holes today. Par is 47, nett 25 in !!!!! We had 10 gross birdies and 2 pars and are three quarters down the field. We'd have needed 8 gross eagles and 4 birdies to tie.
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The scramble allowance is a complete joke and is an example of nothing but guess work when they came to working out the allowance- same with most of the team stuff
 
Junior said:
We had a texas scramble over 12 holes today. Par is 47, nett 25 in !!!!! We had 10 gross birdies and 2 pars and are three quarters down the field. We'd have needed 8 gross eagles and 4 birdies to tie.
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Texas Scramble is now a complete and utter waste of time as a competition now. Unless you have a team with high handicappers.
 
Oddsocks said:
Was sceptical on the whole whs system but I’m no convinced it’s flawed. 27hc come in with 47points and gets cut 2 last week, he now shoots 48 points off 25!

36 points in todays comp would face earned you 32-40th place.

we have a guy off +1 and based off recent scores he needs to shoot 57 gross to be in with a chance of a top 3 based on the last few weeks scores
Click to expand...
It's not WHS that's flawed! It's the way the club runs comps that's flawed! Easy solution - Divisions; Divisions; Divisions!
The issue has been around, for any club that doesn't use divisions, for eons!
The solution is fairly trivial!
 
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Oddsocks said:
Irrelevant as it’s not just him, only two cat1 golfers in the top 20 today. We laugh but if you’re not tracking 20-22 points after 9 you may as well NR
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It is relevant to what you believe is an underlying WHS problem.
How many of these high cappers had high caps under CONGU? If so why are they now getting such low net scores?
If they are new players, it would suggest your handicap committee is not doing its job.
 
MiurasFan said:
It's not WHS that's flawed! It's the way the club runs comps that's flawed! Easy solution - Divisions; Divisions; Divisions!
The issue has been around, for any club that doesn't use divisions, for eons!
The solution is a trivial!
Click to expand...

Divisions & reduction of the 95% allowance in stages until the lower handicappers can reasonably compete.
As it stands atm, the high handicappers are having a field day & in my view positively encouraging the more unscrupulous to increase their H/C when it should be every golfers aim to get as low as they can.
 
rulefan said:
It is relevant to what you believe is an underlying WHS problem.
How many of these high cappers had high caps under CONGU? If so why are they now getting such low net scores?
If they are new players, it would suggest your handicap committee is not doing its job.
Click to expand...
Unfair on the handicap Committee.

Before the first great competition result, what evidence would they have to give a player a lower Index than WHS was giving the player?

After the first great competition result, should the Committee give an extra cut, over and above what WHS decided to cut the player?

If the player was playing well outside if acceptable score submissions, and known to Committee, then fair enough. But don't think that was the case?
 
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