D-S
Well-known member
But, I assume, only the lowest level that it has been in the past 365 days?
WHS Average of best 8 question
- Thread starter slalomdude
- Start date
wjemather
Well-known member
Indeed.
slalomdude
Newbie
Here is a screenshot for my first rounds. You can see form the green line that the top score is in my current last 20. The 6.4 was given after six 9 hole rounds
Swango1980
Well-known member
I'm not having a go, but there seems to be a contradiction in what you are saying.
You say it IS only set after the 20th score is submitted - Fine, that is the way I would expect it to work, as that is how the WHS manual defines the Low Handicap Index
Then you say it will be whatever the lowest HI was, regardless of how many scores were on the record when it was achieved - How does this sentence make sense, when you've just specifically said it is only set after 20 scores?
I have a following question, just so you can help me understand how the software works, please.
Player A submits 3 scores, and gets an initial handicap index of 6.4 (with their lowest Score Diff being 8.4 in those 3 scores) on 1st September 2024. They submit their 20th score by 1st March, Index is now 11.0. They got no further reductions by 8th August 2024, and now have 34 scores entered. What is their Low Handicap Index set by the software?
wjemather
Well-known member
There is no contradiction. It is not "...from HIs achieved after the 20th score is submitted", but rather "...after the 20th score is submitted, from all HIs achieved in the last year".
Their LHI is 6.4; the committee should (be monitoring the caps report and) consider an adjustment (including resetting the LHI) when the lowest achieved score differential is significantly higher than than the LHI.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Well, that is wrong then, is it not? The LHI should not be 6.4, it should be 11.0 in my example.
That is, if you follow what the WHS Manual says:
"A Low Handicap Index is established once a player has at least 20 acceptable scores in their scoring record."
wjemather
Well-known member
The lowest HI achieved in the preceding 365 days is 6.4, is it not?
You are adding something that isn't in the rules, i.e. that only HIs achieved from/after the 20th score are considered.
Neilds
Assistant Pro
If you 2 stopped bickering between yourselves you might actually notice the OP has sent in more info to answer his question and actually try and help him
wjemather
Well-known member
The OPs question has been answered; no further information than was initially provided was ever needed to do that (although the additional detail in #5 confirmed the specifics and allowed for a more detailed response).
Swango1980
Well-known member
I copied the following out of the WHS Manual:
"A Low Handicap Index is established once a player has at least 20 acceptable scores in their scoring record." - Section 5.7, Pg 63
wjemather
Well-known member
Nowhere does it say "except for any HIs calculated for the player during their first 20 scores" (or similar) in either the definition of LHI or in rule 5.7.
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
Seems to me that that folk are arguing apples & pears ... Can I try phrasing it a different way.
Until you have 20 counting scores you don't have a low index - of any kind. It's set after 20 scores - until then you don't have one. After 20 scores, sort of 'just like that', it is set - and it is set at the lowest value in the preceding 365 days. (If you've been quick in getting your 20 scores in, it'll be the lowest during those 20. If you've been a bit tardy and it's taken you over a year, it'll be the lowest in the last 365 days).
Which is what WJE has been saying (And indeed, it also tallies with what Swango says the manual is saying).
Until you have 20 counting scores you don't have a low index - of any kind. It's set after 20 scores - until then you don't have one. After 20 scores, sort of 'just like that', it is set - and it is set at the lowest value in the preceding 365 days. (If you've been quick in getting your 20 scores in, it'll be the lowest during those 20. If you've been a bit tardy and it's taken you over a year, it'll be the lowest in the last 365 days).
Which is what WJE has been saying (And indeed, it also tallies with what Swango says the manual is saying).
Swango1980
Well-known member
Thankyou, somebody who actually joins the discussion without a hint of arrogance
. If only you had joined the discussion after Post 6, we'd only be on Post 8 by now Wabinez
Journeyman Pro
But that is exactly what WJE was saying..but I suppose because it has come from someone different, you have now accepted it.Thankyou, somebody who actually joins the discussion without a hint of arrogance
Swango1980
Well-known member
Not at all.
I'll admit that I felt the Low Index could only be set once 20 scores were entered (and thus it was set to be the Index after 20 scores, rather than looking at the Index before them). The reason i felt this was how it should be done was the handicap can be extremely volatile early on, and one very good score in the first 4 or 5 could result in a very low Index. It is simply why I said it doesn't sit right with me in my opening post.
I suspect had we continued our discussion, it'd have quickly become clear to me. I misinterpreted your Post 10, as when you said "if the Low Index after 20 rounds was 6.4...", I thought you meant if the Index was 6.4 on the 20th round, thus the Low Index being established at that (because of how i expected it to work). Sadly wjemather threw in a few digs after that, and so the remaining posts offered very little in clearing up my confusion on how the Low Index is established. Thankfully, backwoodsman could see what I was trying to explain, and put it more clearly without trying to score points.
So, yes, the OP's Low Index is 6.4, and that looks to be because that was his Index after his 3rd score (which took his lowest Score Diff and subtracted 2.0). And I agree, in all likelihood I suspect that is overly harsh on this player and I agree that they need to contact their handicap committee to review this Low Index.
rulefan
Tour Winner
The problem is a misunderstanding of the word 'established'.
Perhaps it should have said 'determined' by ........... 20 .... 365 ....'
Perhaps it should have said 'determined' by ........... 20 .... 365 ....'
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slalomdude
Newbie
Thanks for explanations guys, looks like I hit the soft limit and hard limit will be 11.4 until next March. Just have to sort my game out to avoid hitting that limit 
Swango1980
Well-known member
As wjemather said, I agree with him that it would be worth contacting your handicap secretary. I suspect your Low Index is probably on the low side, given it was based only on your first 3 scores (i.e. your best Score Diff of those, minus 2.0). You obviously had a very good round in there, and your handicap has stabilized to a higher level since handing in more scores.Thanks for explanations guys, looks like I hit the soft limit and hard limit will be 11.4 until next March. Just have to sort my game out to avoid hitting that limit
Had your first 20 scores been exactly the same, but in a different order where that really good round came much later on, you'd find your Low Index would be higher. So, probably not overly fair you're now penalised for peaking too soon
rosecott
Money List Winner
As wjemather said, I agree with him that it would be worth contacting your handicap secretary. I suspect your Low Index is probably on the low side, given it was based only on your first 3 scores (i.e. your best Score Diff of those, minus 2.0). You obviously had a very good round in there, and your handicap has stabilized to a higher level since handing in more scores.
Had your first 20 scores been exactly the same, but in a different order where that really good round came much later on, you'd find your Low Index would be higher. So, probably not overly fair you're now penalised for peaking too soon
I can see no logical reason why his Low Index should be anything other than 6.4 - those are the rules.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Because, it could potentially be based on his one very best score, minus 2.0. Yet for most of the rest of us, it would be based on the average of our best 8 scores.
It is also in the rules that Committees can review these types of things, so I believe?
As an example, when we transitioned to WHS and reviewed my mates score record back from 2018, his Index after his 1st 5 scores was +2.0, because he shot an immense 5th round. His handicap index after 20 scores was just over 3.3. I'd have thought it would have been crazy harsh for his low Index was +2.0, given his Index was generally around 3-5 at the time.
