WHS and club competitions

[NearHull]

What happened as a result? I reported something to the County this year and absolutely nothing happened.

I personally know the County rep who had been detailed to investigate the misdemeanour. That person is very discreet and would only tell me that it had been dealt with. That was enough for me , their integrity is without criticism.

 

[Backache]

It is absolutely typical of the arrogant attitude of the authorities that seniors are regarded as 'offenders'.
There is nothing offensive or untoward about a clubs seniors with many years experience adjusting handicap allowances with regards to local experience if they so desire.

 

[rulefan]

I personally know the County rep who had been detailed to investigate the misdemeanour. That person is very discreet and would only tell me that it had been dealt with. That was enough for me , their integrity is without criticism.

JD?

 

[Swango1980]

It is absolutely typical of the arrogant attitude of the authorities that seniors are regarded as 'offenders'.
There is nothing offensive or untoward about a clubs seniors with many years experience adjusting handicap allowances with regards to local experience if they so desire.

I'd imagine there are many people in the authorities that have a huge amount of experience.

Arrogance may land with many Club Seniors, who think they know better, but with none of the expertise of those in the authorities.

Just a thought anyway

 

[IanM]

Did you follow it up?

Yes, and let's say that nothing happened.

 

[D-S]

It is absolutely typical of the arrogant attitude of the authorities that seniors are regarded as 'offenders'.
There is nothing offensive or untoward about a clubs seniors with many years experience adjusting handicap allowances with regards to local experience if they so desire.

I guess it depends on how you define offensive or untoward.
If you consider that ignoring or deliberately breaking any of the Rules of Handicapping that you don’t agree with is absolutely fine and dandy then just have at it and make up whatever you want.

 

[Backache]

I guess it depends on how you define offensive or untoward.
If you consider that ignoring or deliberately breaking any of the Rules of Handicapping that you don’t agree with is absolutely fine and dandy then just have at it and make up whatever you want.

There are rules to abide with to have a handicap which needs to be general because they are played across clubs etc.
Then there are conventions for how competitions can be handicapped which do not require central intervention.
A rational authority issues them as guidelines not hard and fast orders.
There is a degree of arbitrariness by necessity of what to use as a handicap because no single number suits all circumstances. The authorities if acting reasonably should issue guidelines explaining the benefits and pitfalls of any number rather than ordering private clubs to organise competitions in a single rigid manner.

 

[D-S]

Great idea, you can pick the rules that in your opinion are unfair or unwarranted and break them and I’ll pick the ones that I don’t like and break or ignore them. I am sure that will be better for everyone.

 

[Backache]

Great idea, you can pick the rules that in your opinion are unfair or unwarranted and break them and I’ll pick the ones that I don’t like and break or ignore them. I am sure that will be better for everyone.

If I'm playing with a couple of mates that's exactly what we do..
If a club wishes to have a Blenkinsop trophy to be played off 50% of handicap there is no reason why they should not.
Rules in a competition are there for the mutual benefit of those playing a competition.
If a club wishes to apply a rule saying that theis competition is played from x% of handicap it is up to the members of that club.
Ireland have seen sense and are allowing this.
Why on earth not the UK, rules that are arbitrary are not respected and are not deserving of respect.

 

[rulie]

Mandatory allowances pre-date WHS in GB&I (I think Ireland may have been first to mandate, and England last) and were brought in to bring consistency and fairness. The allowances were previously only recommendations and while many club followed them, many didn't, resulting in an unfathomable mess, and arguments on the first tee - not to mention players being grossly disadvantaged by rotten allowances at some clubs.

Sorry but I fail to understand why the national authority would worry about consistency and fairness in clubs. Imo, that should be left to the club administrators.

 

[Swango1980]

If I'm playing with a couple of mates that's exactly what we do..
If a club wishes to have a Blenkinsop trophy to be played off 50% of handicap there is no reason why they should not.
Rules in a competition are there for the mutual benefit of those playing a competition.
If a club wishes to apply a rule saying that theis competition is played from x% of handicap it is up to the members of that club.
Ireland have seen sense and are allowing this.
Why on earth not the UK, rules that are arbitrary are not respected and are not deserving of respect.

If a group of mates get together, and decide what rules they'll use in a social round, no problem. Up to them.

But, why on earth would a handicap secretary or competition secretary think that, for the benefit of hundreds of members eligible for a competition at their club, they'll play off 50% handicap!?

That defines arrogance. And it is a good reason why the Allowances are mandatory. To stop the arrogant mavericks at some clubs doing what they like.

 

[wjemather]

Sorry but I fail to understand why the national authority would worry about consistency and fairness in clubs. Imo, that should be left to the club administrators.

The national authority deals with resulting complaints and appeals.

 

[wjemather]

If I'm playing with a couple of mates that's exactly what we do..
If a club wishes to have a Blenkinsop trophy to be played off 50% of handicap there is no reason why they should not.
Rules in a competition are there for the mutual benefit of those playing a competition.
If a club wishes to apply a rule saying that theis competition is played from x% of handicap it is up to the members of that club.
Ireland have seen sense and are allowing this.
Why on earth not the UK, rules that are arbitrary are not respected and are not deserving of respect.

In general, no-one cares what you and a few mates do. Although I'd caution against fraudulently taking money from anyone, because the actual law covers this kind of thing.

Perhaps you aren't aware of the very limited scope of what is allowed in Ireland. Or that most clubs in Ireland have not taken up the option, even as a trial for one or two competitions.

Anyway, 50% is not an option, and for very good reason. There are no circumstances under which it would be fair.

 

[NearHull]

JD?

RG, though I do know JD.

 

[rulefan]

RG, though I do know JD.

Lady?

 

[D-S]

Anyway, 50% is not an option, and for very good reason. There are no circumstances under which it would be fair.

However if it was, then there would be some idiot at some club who would want to instigate it as it fits his or her version of ‘fair’. Hence the mandatory allowances.
Never underestimate the competence and experience of some committees.

 

[Backache]

However if it was, then there would be some idiot at some club who would want to instigate it as it fits his or her version of ‘fair’. Hence the mandatory allowances.
Never underestimate the competence and experience of some committees.

But there is not a single version of 'fair'.
A single handicap cannot provide an outcome that everyone regards as fair.
What reason is there that a club cannot play different competitions with different allowances?

You can have competitions with allowances of 100, 90 80 75 70 60 50 and zero .It's up to individuals to enter them or otherwise.

 

[Swango1980]

But there is not a single version of 'fair'.
A single handicap cannot provide an outcome that everyone regards as fair.
What reason is there that a club cannot play different competitions with different allowances?

You can have competitions with allowances of 100, 90 80 75 70 60 50 and zero .It's up to individuals to enter them or otherwise.

Your posts demonstrate well as to why the Allowances are mandatory. To protect golf club members from Club Competition Organisers with your mindset.

And you've contradicted your reasoning. If you believe that there is no single Allowance that everyone will deem as fair, then if you were to set up a competition with an Allowance you deem to be fair (that opposes WHS), then you must acknowledge others in the membership will say this is not fair.

So, your intervention had nothing to do with doing what is right for your members. It is simply satisfying your own opinion on the matter.

 

[Backache]

And you've contradicted your reasoning. If you believe that there is no single Allowance that everyone will deem as fair, then if you were to set up a competition with an Allowance you deem to be fair (that opposes WHS), then you must acknowledge others in the membership will say this is not fair.

Which is why I said that the best thing is to have several competitions with different allowances as none will be fair to all.
The make up to be at the clubs discretion.
There is no contradiction.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

In general, no-one cares what you and a few mates do. Although I'd caution against fraudulently taking money from anyone, because the actual law covers this kind of thing.

Perhaps you aren't aware of the very limited scope of what is allowed in Ireland. Or that most clubs in Ireland have not taken up the option, even as a trial for one or two competitions.

Anyway, 50% is not an option, and for very good reason. There are no circumstances under which it would be fair.

Im a bit confused how people would be committing fraud by taking money from people when playing golf to their own rules ?