DingleBerry
Assistant Pro
Fans blame England's players and not coach Fabio Capello for our world cup exit!
75% players
18% coach
7% others
The Suns YouGov Poll!!
75% players
18% coach
7% others
The Suns YouGov Poll!!
Whos to blame?
- Thread starter DingleBerry
- Start date
freddielong
Tour Winner
For me the players didnt perform for whatever reason and I would be confident that no manger would have got them to work.
Capello could only try and make a team from the availible players, the only thing that disapointed me about Capello was he used a few different players in qualifying, but then took a squad that felt like it was the same squad Sven took.
Capello could only try and make a team from the availible players, the only thing that disapointed me about Capello was he used a few different players in qualifying, but then took a squad that felt like it was the same squad Sven took.
Kellfire
Blackballed
Gerrard isn't a left winger. Who played him there?
Terry doesn't play that side of central defence. Who played him there?
Glen Johnson isn't the best defensive RB in the country. Who picked him as the only dedicated RB?
Carragher is spent. Who asked him out of retirement?
King is a known crock. Who took him?
Lampard isn't a deep lying midfielder. Who played him there?
Rooney plays best as a lone striker and wasn't fit. Who played him every game in a 4-4-2?
Barry wasn't fit and had a poor season. Who picked him?
Heskey is a bog standard player. Who picked him constantly?
Joe Cole can do things others can't. Whose arrogance ignored public opinion and common sense and wouldn't pick him.
Adam Johnson gets picked ahead of SWP for City, for good reason. Who left the better player at home?
Who is the best English keeper by a country mile? Joe Hart. Who didn't get a single minute on the pitch while both other keepers made mistakes? Who made that decision?
No, the players didn't perform, but Capello got basically every major decision wrong.
Terry doesn't play that side of central defence. Who played him there?
Glen Johnson isn't the best defensive RB in the country. Who picked him as the only dedicated RB?
Carragher is spent. Who asked him out of retirement?
King is a known crock. Who took him?
Lampard isn't a deep lying midfielder. Who played him there?
Rooney plays best as a lone striker and wasn't fit. Who played him every game in a 4-4-2?
Barry wasn't fit and had a poor season. Who picked him?
Heskey is a bog standard player. Who picked him constantly?
Joe Cole can do things others can't. Whose arrogance ignored public opinion and common sense and wouldn't pick him.
Adam Johnson gets picked ahead of SWP for City, for good reason. Who left the better player at home?
Who is the best English keeper by a country mile? Joe Hart. Who didn't get a single minute on the pitch while both other keepers made mistakes? Who made that decision?
No, the players didn't perform, but Capello got basically every major decision wrong.
bobmac
Major Champion
OOB please
Spoff
Tour Rookie
The blame has to be split, the players must take the majority of it as they're the one'son the field who didn't perform.
So what if it wasn't their preferred position, they're professional footballers who play and train all day. If they can't adapt then they don't deserve to be an international footballer.
Capello has to take a lot of the blame too, far too stuborn and stuck in his ways, I don't necesserily subscribe to the argument that Joe Cole was the answer, but he should have tried something!
I would also lay a lot of blame at the door of the media.
They whip up expectation amongst fans who's only opinion is given to them by the media, anyone who watches English players knows they are not technically good enough to win at the highest level.
A lot of people have given the squad stick for being holed up in a luxary hotel - I blame the media for that too, the players have to be protected as they're too scared of venturing out and mistaking a mistke as teh media will pounce on it.
The front page of a tabloid yesterday was of King and Cole laughing. So what? They're human, every Englishman will have laughed since the Germany game.
So what if it wasn't their preferred position, they're professional footballers who play and train all day. If they can't adapt then they don't deserve to be an international footballer.
Capello has to take a lot of the blame too, far too stuborn and stuck in his ways, I don't necesserily subscribe to the argument that Joe Cole was the answer, but he should have tried something!
I would also lay a lot of blame at the door of the media.
They whip up expectation amongst fans who's only opinion is given to them by the media, anyone who watches English players knows they are not technically good enough to win at the highest level.
A lot of people have given the squad stick for being holed up in a luxary hotel - I blame the media for that too, the players have to be protected as they're too scared of venturing out and mistaking a mistke as teh media will pounce on it.
The front page of a tabloid yesterday was of King and Cole laughing. So what? They're human, every Englishman will have laughed since the Germany game.
Spoff
Tour Rookie
I agree with your post, Kellfire, but...
Centre half is centre half, if an international defender cannot adapt to a small change like that he shouldn't have been there. Terry's problem is that he is an old fashioned centre half who needs a better player with him to cover his mistakes. Carragher and Upson are not that plater.
i wouldn't have said Lampard was playing back, that was Barry's role. Lampard just isn't technically good enough.
Rooney, like Terry, if he was as good as he and the media believe he could play up their on his own with a partner or as a second striker.
Messi can play anywhere up there, as can Ronaldo.
English players are very rigid and set in their ways. We appear to have learnt nothing from the Dutch's Total Football all them years ago!!!
Centre half is centre half, if an international defender cannot adapt to a small change like that he shouldn't have been there. Terry's problem is that he is an old fashioned centre half who needs a better player with him to cover his mistakes. Carragher and Upson are not that plater.
i wouldn't have said Lampard was playing back, that was Barry's role. Lampard just isn't technically good enough.
Rooney, like Terry, if he was as good as he and the media believe he could play up their on his own with a partner or as a second striker.
Messi can play anywhere up there, as can Ronaldo.
English players are very rigid and set in their ways. We appear to have learnt nothing from the Dutch's Total Football all them years ago!!!
Kellfire
Blackballed
Lampard was having to sit very deep, Barry isn't a ball winner that Lampard is accustomed to at Chelsea. He's a technically very good player.
As for Terry, at that level of football, it is a massive thing to move a CB from his preferred side. He's used to playing with Cole, who was on the left, which only heightened how important it was to keep that stability there. At that level, it's an instinct thing. He doesn't think where to position himself, it's a natural thing. You could tell all game long he was drifting further and further to the left, both covering Upson and out on nature.
Ronaldo can't play anywhere, he's lost as a CF despite how much he wants to be one. He is and always have been effective coming in from the right in a very advanced role. Put him on the left or through the middle and you massively reduce him as a player. Messi's role is to drift anyway, so yes, he is naturally capable of doing that better than most.
All that aside, even if the players should be able to adapt, they couldn't and it was the moronic, stubborn Capello who insisted that the World Cup was the stage at which to force them to when it clearly wasn't working, game after game.
As for Terry, at that level of football, it is a massive thing to move a CB from his preferred side. He's used to playing with Cole, who was on the left, which only heightened how important it was to keep that stability there. At that level, it's an instinct thing. He doesn't think where to position himself, it's a natural thing. You could tell all game long he was drifting further and further to the left, both covering Upson and out on nature.
Ronaldo can't play anywhere, he's lost as a CF despite how much he wants to be one. He is and always have been effective coming in from the right in a very advanced role. Put him on the left or through the middle and you massively reduce him as a player. Messi's role is to drift anyway, so yes, he is naturally capable of doing that better than most.
All that aside, even if the players should be able to adapt, they couldn't and it was the moronic, stubborn Capello who insisted that the World Cup was the stage at which to force them to when it clearly wasn't working, game after game.
Spoff you are having a laugh asking for the media to take some blame,it aint their fault thousands thought a team full of well paid mediocre players could possibly win the World Cup.As you say in a roundabout way ,anyone who isn't so stupid to be brainwashed by these guys knew it wasn't going to happen.
And special agent Capello is doing a fine job so no blame there.
And special agent Capello is doing a fine job so no blame there.
Unless you play a striker as a keeper, any player should be able to at least string a pass to another team mate, its the players 90 percent and other 10% John Terrys fault for being a skanky knob who would otherwise have followed in his mum and dads wake had ne not managed to get signed by a professional (HA!) football team.
They were out played, out managed, outclassed completely.
They were out played, out managed, outclassed completely.
viscount17
Money List Winner
It's not an either-or, it's both
Capello should have stuck to 'in form and fit' as a selection criterion - that's half the team for a start. Of the rest there were a good few who are simply not good enough.
Why select the 'best' player in a position then not play him there - like them or loathe them, Cole, JT, Lampard and Cole play left side together week in/week out.
That said simply being played out of position is not an excuse for not trying (or of being so inept that you give the appearance of not trying).
Right or wrong, if it's not working on the pitch the captain (and the players) should have the nouse to change it on the fly irrespective of a single-minded, one-way my-way, manager
Capello should have stuck to 'in form and fit' as a selection criterion - that's half the team for a start. Of the rest there were a good few who are simply not good enough.
Why select the 'best' player in a position then not play him there - like them or loathe them, Cole, JT, Lampard and Cole play left side together week in/week out.
That said simply being played out of position is not an excuse for not trying (or of being so inept that you give the appearance of not trying).
Right or wrong, if it's not working on the pitch the captain (and the players) should have the nouse to change it on the fly irrespective of a single-minded, one-way my-way, manager
welshjim22
Head Pro
Anyone consider this was just about where England should have been. Being famous doesn't make them worldclass.
Kellfire
Blackballed
England have many world class players, so that doesn't really stand up.
It's a pity they didn't take them to the world cup then.
Macster
Journeyman Pro
Personally, I think Sir Bobby Robson's alleged quote some years ago is absolutely spot on.......
Allegedly, in a rage once at a below par performance at Newcastle, he told the particular bunch of players before him that....
'There's not one of you fit to command £40 Grand per year, let alone £40 Grand per week, if it werent for football'.
About sums up the pathetic excuses for footballers we let loose to represent our Country on the World Stage.
Allegedly, in a rage once at a below par performance at Newcastle, he told the particular bunch of players before him that....
'There's not one of you fit to command £40 Grand per year, let alone £40 Grand per week, if it werent for football'.
About sums up the pathetic excuses for footballers we let loose to represent our Country on the World Stage.
Spoff
Tour Rookie
Ashley Cole is the only World Class english player.
The others are all excellent at club level where they are surrounded by world class foreigners, look at Gerrard he has been superb for Liverpool up until the last couple of years where he has been surrounded by dross.
And Dodger - I do think the media are partially to blame, a very small % mind.
The British media loves building people up so they can knock them down.
Spoff
Tour Rookie
After the Algeria game when my sister said 'Is this the best England have' I said nope, it's the most famous players we have.
Although it is denied I am sure there is some comercial aspect about picking the team, it's the only reason Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, Terry, Beckham get picked when fit.
AuburnWarrior
Tour Winner
Capello is to blame for not living up to his billing. Throughout the last season he has stated on numerous occassions that he'd only pick fit, in form players who were playing for their clubs. This is superb and should have been followed through - it wasn't! SWP - can't get a game at Man City, Heskey - can't get a game at his club, Barry, A Cole and J Cole not fit and Gerrard and Terry nowhere near the form of previous seasons. But, here we have the problem, no England manager seems to have the balls to drop Terry/Gerrard/Lampard/anyone with a big reputation. Why? Because they fear the media backlash.
I didn't think the squad was strong enough - purely because we had too many crocks and too many out of form players.
I also blame the players. As far as I'm concerned, pulling on an England shirt, be it football, cricket, rugby, etc is the greatest honour. It's the pinnacle. 60,000,000 people will be supporting you and it's a position of great honour and privilege. None of the England players seemed to recognise that. Why's that? I honestly think that they now see it as an inconvenience to play for England. Starting with any friendlies - how many of the 'stars' turn out? Most of them cry off with 'injuries' that miraculously heal by the next weekend. That means that certain 'lesser' players get call ups. So, the 'stars' don't care for friendlies. Many of the club managers have stated that it's club first, country second so with this rhetoric in the players' minds, is it any wonder that they don't want to be involved with England.
Also, in most other sports, it's not until you represent England that you can start earning decent money. A first class cricketer will earn peanuts compared to his equivalent in the football world. So, once he's got the England call-up, he's going to fight tooth and nail to keep hold of it. The footballers have already earnt so much money that the England gig doesn't mean as much. Walcott - 21 - already a multi millionaire - where does his motivation come from now?
The only player that I think gives >100% when he plays for England is Beckham. It was a great shame that he was injured for the finals.
I'd like to see a manager who picks the team that HE wants rather than the team the media wants.
I'd like to see England players who had the same commitment and desire to play for England as me.
I'd like to see the media get behind the team before and during the tournament rather than trying to bring them down.
I know that we have no divine right to win anything - that's sheer arrogance but I'd like to see us put up a fight and play with passion and pride (as it said on the England team bus). If we then lost, fair play, no gripes from me but when we limp along and get walloped then questions need to be answered.
I didn't think the squad was strong enough - purely because we had too many crocks and too many out of form players.
I also blame the players. As far as I'm concerned, pulling on an England shirt, be it football, cricket, rugby, etc is the greatest honour. It's the pinnacle. 60,000,000 people will be supporting you and it's a position of great honour and privilege. None of the England players seemed to recognise that. Why's that? I honestly think that they now see it as an inconvenience to play for England. Starting with any friendlies - how many of the 'stars' turn out? Most of them cry off with 'injuries' that miraculously heal by the next weekend. That means that certain 'lesser' players get call ups. So, the 'stars' don't care for friendlies. Many of the club managers have stated that it's club first, country second so with this rhetoric in the players' minds, is it any wonder that they don't want to be involved with England.
Also, in most other sports, it's not until you represent England that you can start earning decent money. A first class cricketer will earn peanuts compared to his equivalent in the football world. So, once he's got the England call-up, he's going to fight tooth and nail to keep hold of it. The footballers have already earnt so much money that the England gig doesn't mean as much. Walcott - 21 - already a multi millionaire - where does his motivation come from now?
The only player that I think gives >100% when he plays for England is Beckham. It was a great shame that he was injured for the finals.
I'd like to see a manager who picks the team that HE wants rather than the team the media wants.
I'd like to see England players who had the same commitment and desire to play for England as me.
I'd like to see the media get behind the team before and during the tournament rather than trying to bring them down.
I know that we have no divine right to win anything - that's sheer arrogance but I'd like to see us put up a fight and play with passion and pride (as it said on the England team bus). If we then lost, fair play, no gripes from me but when we limp along and get walloped then questions need to be answered.
Parmo
Tour Winner
The only EPL star performing at the WC is Tevez, the rest look jaded and in need of rest. The FA should look at bringing the season start forward when a major tournament is at the end of the season. Either that or have an Xmas break and knock the Carling cup on the head.
AuburnWarrior
Tour Winner
Really??? Kevin Prince Boateng seems to be doing OK.
I don't subscribe to this 'tired' rational. I remember speaking to a personal trainer who himself played a high level of football and he said that three games a week should be a walk in the park for a top class, professional athlete. We were talking about Henry playing for Arsenal and Wenger had mentioned to the press that Henry was tired. The personal trainer dismissed this immediately.
Anyway, Capello stated during the tournament that the players were in great shape. Plus, none of them had been involved in the latter stages of the CL so should have been fresher than the Bayern Munich players!
No, they lack desire. I've been knackered before through having two small children, a full time job, a house, a garden, an insatiable need to drink copious amounts of booze and a wife - I've still relished my 18 holes on a Sunday morning. These guys have it all - the best facilities, the best staff around them, the best equipment and, perhaps most importantly, thousands of people who travel all around the world, who would give their right arm to be in their position and still they lack desire.
That is why I'd rather see 11 players who give their all for the badge - regardless of their level in the game, than 11 who couldn't really be arsed!
BROOKIE
Challenge Tour Pro
Anyone who thought england had a chance of WINNING the world cup are about as optomistic as drunk in thailand..yer what "a lady boy",it sobers you up,I can tell yer..
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