Where should the red stakes be?

[YandaB]

Where should the red stakes (2ft high) be: A, B, C, somewhere else?

The Rules of Golf have this line in the Committee Procedures for how it should be marked:

• Lines and stakes defining the edge of a penalty area should be placed as near as possible along the natural limits of the penalty area, for example, where the ground breaks down to form the depression containing the water. This will ensure that players will not be forced to stand with the ball significantly above or below their feet or in the water after taking relief. Consideration should be given for both right-handed and left-handed players.

And this line in the Definitions for when they have not:

When the edge of a body of water is not defined by the Committee, the edge of that penalty area is defined by its natural boundaries (that is, where the ground slopes down to form the depression that can hold the water).

The 2 use very slightly different language one says "ground slopes down" and the other "ground breaks down". Does "breaks" mean disintegrates (B) or where the slope changes (c.f. break in a putt) (C) which to me would match "ground slopes down".

Would the answer change if part of the lake had a larger slope on part of it that went about 6ft up to a green? Where should the stakes be there? A similar height to the first answer or at the top of the slope by the green?

 

[rulefan]

At a presentation to for county referees given by a high profile Tour Referee recently, we were told that C should be used. We had the opportunity to study a few PAs involving streams and lakes in situ. The presenter indicated that a noticeable change in the slope (ie affecting stance) was the qualification.

 

[rulie]

Definitely at C.

 

[IanM]

At a presentation to for county referees given by a high profile Tour Referee recently, we were told that C should be used. We had the opportunity to study a few PAs involving streams and lakes in situ. The presenter indicated that a noticeable change in the slope (ie affecting stance) was the qualification.

Yes. That's pretty much what we were told a Wales Golf level 2 this year

 

[salfordlad]

C is most appropriate but if a Committee uses A or B that is what is in force.

 

[YandaB]

At a presentation to for county referees given by a high profile Tour Referee recently, we were told that C should be used. We had the opportunity to study a few PAs involving streams and lakes in situ. The presenter indicated that a noticeable change in the slope (ie affecting stance) was the qualification.

Thanks Rulefan, I don't suppose that there are any slides from the presentation that can be used to educate our committee are there? Any other sources of information that I can use?

Yes. That's pretty much what we were told a Wales Golf level 2 this year

Thanks Ian. Likewise, anything that I can use to assist the committee with revising things?

C is most appropriate but if a Committee uses A or B that is what is in force.

Certainly that is what is done, we are now using B. There is no evidence in the committee minutes of them making a decision to change from C to B which is what has happened. I reckon it should be C and we should go back to C unless someone on the committee can tell us a good reason for the change and show that it was agreed by the committee.

Did anyone have a view on the supplementary question: Would the answer change if part of the lake had a larger slope on part of it that went about 6ft up to a built up green? Where should the stakes be there? A similar height to the first answer (to be consistent height around the lake) or again, at the top of the slope by the green? It seems similar to

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=448978223828634

(at 2.30 to see further back down the hole).

 

[rulefan]

Thanks Rulefan, I don't suppose that there are any slides from the presentation that can be used to educate our committee are there? Any other sources of information that I can use?

Sorry no. All that part of the presentation was done out on the course.

 

[rulefan]

Re the second question - I would still suggest C. The video shows a situation where the ball is virtually always going to finish in the water. But a player in a PA now has all the options that were introduced at the last revision, so a ball not ending in the water will probably not incur a penalty.

 

[LincolnShep]

I like courses where the cut line is comfortably PA side of the stakes. In your image, I'd want to see the stake at C and the grass cutting line somewhere between C and B (or all the way to the water if possible). It really improves pace of play if all doubt is removed. Same applies for white stakes.

 

[rulefan]

I like courses where the cut line is comfortably PA side of the stakes. In your image, I'd want to see the stake at C and the grass cutting line somewhere between C and B (or all the way to the water if possible). It really improves pace of play if all doubt is removed. Same applies for white stakes.

We had previously moved our stakes yo position C and instructed greens to mow within the PA side.