When you can hit ‘a moving ball’

[rulefan]

From when?

When he has had a reasonable time to reach the hole.

 

[doublebogey7]

Both players agreed the ball was still moving though. The ball wouldn't be moving for 3 or 4 hours would it?

So how long can it stay moving??

 

[Orikoru]

So how long can it stay moving??

Until it stops obviously. There is not a scenario where it will move forever is there? If it kept rolling like that but missed the hole they wouldn't add a stroke would they? Since he wouldn't be able to hit it while it's moving so that wouldn't be fair. But the rules punish him because it went in. How stupid.

 

[backwoodsman]

Until it stops obviously. There is not a scenario where it will move forever is there? If it kept rolling like that but missed the hole they wouldn't add a stroke would they? Since he wouldn't be able to hit it while it's moving so that wouldn't be fair. But the rules punish him because it went in. How stupid.

Just occasionally, I wonder if there are any rules of golf that you agree with?

And it was obviously just wishfull thinking on their part that the ball was still moving. No way on God's planet was that ball "clearly still moving"

 

[Orikoru]

Just occasionally, I wonder if there are any rules of golf that you agree with?

And it was obviously just wishfull thinking on their part that the ball was still moving. No way on God's planet was that ball "clearly still moving"

Most of them actually, given that there are about 5000.

It obviously was still moving given that it fell into the hole, no? If the ball isn't done moving then the shot shouldn't be counted as finished until it has come to a complete stop. To say otherwise is completely illogical.

 

[theoneandonly]

Most of them actually, given that there are about 5000.

It obviously was still moving given that it fell into the hole, no? If the ball isn't done moving then the shot shouldn't be counted as finished until it has come to a complete stop. To say otherwise is completely illogical.

TBF this is a pretty slam dunk rule. Also things can stop moving and then move again.

 

[SaintHacker]

Most of them actually, given that there are about 5000.

It obviously was still moving given that it fell into the hole, no? If the ball isn't done moving then the shot shouldn't be counted as finished until it has come to a complete stop. To say otherwise is completely illogical.

Don't be ridiculous it had clearly stopped or it wouldn't have taken a full minute to roll into the hole! THey were waiting for a puff of wind or a heavy foot to make it topple.

 

[Orikoru]

I don't see why Kuchar would cheat on Kim's behalf, and he said when they got to the ball it was still moving.

For those in favour of it, do you not think it's a bit daft that two rules contradict each other? i.e. you can't hit a moving ball but you can't wait for it to stop moving either?

 

[rulefan]

Until it stops obviously. There is not a scenario where it will move forever is there? If it kept rolling like that but missed the hole they wouldn't add a stroke would they? Since he wouldn't be able to hit it while it's moving so that wouldn't be fair. But the rules punish him because it went in. How stupid.

He was 'penalised' because he wasted time. He was allowed 10 seconds, he took over a minute.

 

[bobmac]

There has to be a limit on how long you can wait. You can't stand for ages waiting/hoping the ball will fall in the hole so the powers that be set the limit at 10 secs.
Hit your approach shot/putt to the hole side, take a reasonable time to get to the ball then start counting.
If after 10 seconds the ball hasn't fallen in then it is deemed stationary and you then putt out.

 

[rulefan]

For those in favour of it, do you not think it's a bit daft that two rules contradict each other? i.e. you can't hit a moving ball but you can't wait for it to stop moving either?

There isn't a contradiction. The rule places a 10 second time limit on the ball moving. After that, it doesn't matter. As the rule says "The ball is treated as being at rest".

As it is at rest (as deemed) the only way it would get into the hole is for him to play it. But if it subsequently falls in, to save further time, he simply gets a penalty stroke instead.

 

[Orikoru]

There has to be a limit on how long you can wait. You can't stand for ages waiting/hoping the ball will fall in the hole so the powers that be set the limit at 10 secs.
Hit your approach shot/putt to the hole side, take a reasonable time to get to the ball then start counting.
If after 10 seconds the ball hasn't fallen in then it is deemed stationary and you then putt out.

If the ball isn't moving and you're waiting for nothing then you'd be told to get a move on. Quite simple really.

He was 'penalised' because he wasted time. He was allowed 10 seconds, he took over a minute.

I know that. I didn't ask what the rule was, I said the rule is daft.

 

[Orikoru]

There isn't a contradiction. The rule places a 10 second time limit on the ball moving. After that, it doesn't matter. As the rule says "The ball is treated as being at rest".

As it is at rest (as deemed) the only way it would get into the hole is for him to play it. But if it subsequently falls in, to save further time, he simply gets a penalty stroke instead.

So if it was still rolling slightly but actually missed the cup, he'd be allowed to hit the moving ball then? Because 10 seconds had passed?

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I think if I had walked from say 150 yards and the ball hadn’t dropped, I’d probably look at it and wonder how it hadn’t dropped before just knocking it in.

I was more wondering that in the situation it drops whilst you are doing the 150 yard walk does it count as a 2 or a 3.....providing the shot in was your 2nd

It's clear enough as Imurg said. You play the shot-usually a putt- you then walk to the ball in reasonable time - no diversions, pulling up socks etc-
when you reach the ball you then have 10 seconds to see if it drops.
If it doesn't then drop it is considered to be at rest and should be played.
I.e. Another shot.

The rule is clear and I think well known by golfers, certainly pros.
If it is wished to change the rule so that waiting can go on so long as the ball is still moving, then they should press for a change of rule.
That is another matter altogether from what happened on the day.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

So if it was still rolling slightly but actually missed the cup, he'd be allowed to hit the moving ball then? Because 10 seconds had passed?

Yes. But clearly that's an incredibly unlikely scenario. Hard to imagine a ball that would be still moving 10 seconds after you walked to it.

 

[Orikoru]

Yes. But clearly that's an incredibly unlikely scenario. Hard to imagine a ball that would be still moving 10 seconds after you walked to it.

But it was in this case. According to Kuchar and Kim.

 

[garyinderry]

Don't be ridiculous it had clearly stopped or it wouldn't have taken a full minute to roll into the hole! THey were waiting for a puff of wind or a heavy foot to make it topple.

I've stood beside a ball that was at the edge of the hole and quite clearly seen it move like those two players. Moving fractionally all the same but while looking you could see it creeping ever so slowly towards toppling into the hole.

I've also stood and seen a ball on the edge that seems to defy gravity but doesnt look like its going to fall.


Now what makes the ball eventually fall in I dont know. In the example above i remember it was on our 7th green. Slopes heavily from front to back. Pretty sure it was a downhill putt that stopped on the edge. Its possible, that the mesh of grass a the edge of the hole was enough to bring the ball to a stop but the weight of the ball and the slope was enough to begin putting these blades of grass under pressure. Enough to allow the ball to continue to move ever so slowly until the grass gives way and the ball topples in.

Me and my friend were both doing the same as these pros pointing at the ball saying its moving.


Whilst I'm happy to follow the 10 second rule there is a case for saying the ball hasn't yet come to a complete stop. I've seen it. It does happen.
We cant have players standing forever waiting on balls to fall so 10 seconds seems a fair amount of time. A true rub of the green occurrence.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

But it was in this case. According to Kuchar and Kim.

"According to," so quite possible it wasn't. Or it could have stopped and then started again. The only thing that is actually clear is the rule. The more permutations that you add to the argument, the more clear it becomes to me that the rule is good.

 

[rksquire]

Doesn't matter if the ball is moving - it's considered to be at rest after ten seconds. I don't think them walking around was any more of a factor than Tony Finua using his shadow to get the ball to drop a couple of weeks ago.

I think, for sure, they waited far too long but obviously they could see the ball moving. However the rules are the rules and the penalty should be applied.

Just out of interest, if the ball is at 'deemed' at rest after 10 seconds, and your approach has stopped at the top of a green slope and stays there for over a minute, but whilst you're walking to it putter in hand and it starts rolling, I assume you cannot hit it whilst it's moving (even though it's deemed to be at rest!) and you have to play it from where it stops?

 

[Canary_Yellow]

I think, for sure, they waited far too long but obviously they could see the ball moving. However the rules are the rules and the penalty should be applied.

Just out of interest, if the ball is at 'deemed' at rest after 10 seconds, and your approach has stopped at the top of a green slope and stays there for over a minute, but whilst you're walking to it putter in hand and it starts rolling, I assume you cannot hit it whilst it's moving (even though it's deemed to be at rest!) and you have to play it from where it stops?

I think that's right. Does the 10 second rule apply other than when the ball drops in?