When is a net triple bogey a double?

[Alan Clifford]

My wife and I intend to play Sand Moor next week and will play off the green markers. My course handicap will be 24 and my wife's will be 30. But her's has to be upped for the difference in course ratings, making it 35.

But it is my understanding that, for differential calculation purposes, she should be capped at net double bogey based on the 30. That's 5 holes where she will have an ooportunity for a net double to be a triple and need to do a seperate calculation.

And, furthermore, if England Golf had adopted the WHS that seemingly everyone else uses, my course handicap would have been 18 rather than 24. Again, this is significant in regards to the net double bogey maximum used for calculating differentials.

I don't mind all the convoluted arithmetic but I wish we would all use the same convolutions.

 

[rulefan]

And, furthermore, if England Golf had adopted the WHS that seemingly everyone else uses, my course handicap would have been 18 rather than 24.

How did you arrive at that figure? In other parts of the world the CR is adjusted by the difference between the course Rating and Par.

Course Handicap = Handicap Index x (Slope Rating ÷ 113) or
Course Handicap = Handicap Index x (Slope Rating ÷ 113) + (Course Rating - Par)

The men's green tees are 66.1 and 71 and ladies' 71.3 and 73.

What are your Handicap Indices?


Sand Moor Golf Club (1014674)

Tee Name	Gender	Par	Course Rating	Slope Rating	Front (9)	Back (9)
Black	Male	71	71.6	136	36.1 / 130	35.5 / 142	Select
Orange	Male	71	69.4	129	35.2 / 126	34.2 / 131	Select
Green	Male	71	66.1	124	33.3 / 125	32.8 / 123	Select
Green - Women	Female	73	71.3	127	36 / 122	35.3 / 131	Select
Black Composite 9	Male	36	36.7	140	36.7 / 140	0 / 0	Select
Orange Composite 9	Male	36	35.5	136	35.5 / 136	0 / 0	Select
Blue Composite 9	Female	37	36.9	131	36.9 / 131	0 / 0	Select
Blue	Male	71	67.2	121	34 / 118	33.2 / 124	Select
Blue	Female	73	72.8	129	37 / 126	35.8 / 131	Select
Orange	Female	73	75.7	136	38.5 / 132	37.2 / 139	Select

 

[wjemather]

My wife and I intend to play Sand Moor next week and will play off the green markers. My course handicap will be 24 and my wife's will be 30. But her's has to be upped for the difference in course ratings, making it 35.

But it is my understanding that, for differential calculation purposes, she should be capped at net double bogey based on the 30. That's 5 holes where she will have an ooportunity for a net double to be a triple and need to do a seperate calculation.

And, furthermore, if England Golf had adopted the WHS that seemingly everyone else uses, my course handicap would have been 18 rather than 24. Again, this is significant in regards to the net double bogey maximum used for calculating differentials.

I don't mind all the convoluted arithmetic but I wish we would all use the same convolutions.

No-one needs to be thinking about it like this, and there is certainly no need for additional calculations.
For handicapping, the maximum hole score is nett double bogey with reference to Course Handicap. So, whatever scoring method is being used (Stableford, Par/Bogey or regular stroke play), simply play with reference to whichever is the higher with regards to picking-up - Course or Playing handicap - after nett double bogey is reached and you can't go wrong for handicapping.

England Golf will be adopting CR-Par in the Course Handicap calculation from April next year. While it may feel like a significant difference, the difference to resultant Handicap Indexes is statistically insignificant - and that's all that really matters.

Also, if you are playing Stableford (I assume you are, otherwise there would be no need for thinking about nett-double bogeys at all), the mixed tee adjustment is 3, not 5.

 

[Alan Clifford]

22.2 * 124/113 = 24.36 --> 24

22.2 * 124/113 + 66.1 - 72 = 18.46 --> 18

26.6 * 127/113 = 29.89 --> 30

26.6 * 127/113 + 71.3 - 72 = 29.19 --> 29


71.3 - 66.1 = 5.2 so the wife get 30 + 5 = 35 for course rating but I understand that she has to use 30 for course handicap to calculate double bogeys for the differential calculation.

Under the World WHS, I'd use 18 rather than 24 for for course handicap to calculate double bogeys for the differential calculation

Under the World WHS, the wife would use 29 rather than 30 for for course handicap to calculate double bogeys for the differential calculation

The pars on the England Golf website are different from those in post #2, see https://www.englandgolf.org/club-detail?clubId=101467

 

[Alan Clifford]

Regarding post #3, it is my understanding that the extra shots I give to my wife are similar to the calculation of a playing handicap in competitions, and neither of these are the course handicap to be used for calculation of net double bogey for differential purposes

 

[wjemather]

Regarding post #3, it is my understanding that the extra shots I give to my wife are similar to the calculation of a playing handicap in competitions, and neither of these are the course handicap to be used for calculation of net double bogey for differential purposes

From post #4, you are using regular stroke play (medal) mixed tee adjustments, so why are you even thinking about nett double bogeys? The system will take care of it.

 

[rulefan]

The pars on the England Golf website are different from those in post #2, see https://www.englandgolf.org/club-detail?clubId=101467

I used the R&A database. The USGA pars are the same as the R&A's

 

[wjemather]

I used the R&A database. The USGA are pars are the same as the R&A's

View attachment 48526

Unfortunately, pars on the NCRDB are often inaccurate for courses in GB&I - 3 out of 4 in Wales that I looked at for a member last week were wrong - presumably this needs to be remediated in the next 6-9 months.

 

[rulefan]

Regarding post #3, it is my understanding that the extra shots I give to my wife are similar to the calculation of a playing handicap in competitions, and neither of these are the course handicap to be used for calculation of net double bogey for differential purposes

Are you playing a match against your wife or in a strokeplay competition?

 

[Alan Clifford]

Are you playing a match against your wife or in a strokeplay competition?

Now you are trying to complicate things

We usually just do stroke play. But thank you for reminding me. If we do a matchplay, I get loads of points at https://www.linksnetgolf.com/ even if I lose!

It won't be eligible for my EG handicap but I can put it into HNA. What does the W stand for in WHS?

 

[Alan Clifford]

Unfortunately, pars on the NCRDB are often inaccurate for courses in GB&I - 3 out of 4 in Wales that I looked at for a member last week were wrong - presumably this needs to be remediated in the next 6-9 months.

We'll find out when we get the card. And of course, there will be no double/triple bogeys so it's all academic.

 

[IanMcC]

England Golf will be adopting CR-Par in the Course Handicap calculation from April next year. While it may feel like a significant difference, the difference to resultant Handicap Indexes is statistically insignificant - and that's all that really matters.

Do you know if Wales Golf will also be changing to this? Have not heard anything, and the website does not mention it.

 

[wjemather]

Do you know if Wales Golf will also be changing to this? Have not heard anything, and the website does not mention it.

As far as I know, CONGU as a whole are adopting it - however, I don't know if it will be done simultaneously and the only date I've been told is for England.

 

[D-S]

Do you know if Wales Golf will also be changing to this? Have not heard anything, and the website does not mention it.

I was told that it was a CONGU decision to adopt CR - Par, so therefore I presume that Wales will definitively do so. I would like to think all the home unions would choose the same implement date.

 

[IanMcC]

Is there a link confirming this change, or is it all a bit hush hush at the moment?

 

[D-S]

Is there a link confirming this change, or is it all a bit hush hush at the moment?

There was a notification memo sent to EG officials and it was announced at WHS seminars for County Secretaries and Handicap Advisors as well as at EG County Update meetings. There has been no notice given on the EG website or in any of their emails but it was said that clubs would be informed and education material would be sent later in the year.