when can you drop in a hazard??

[alexgolf]

Hello all

Two things to think about here.

Bit of a rules question first which relates to the thread question.

So on a hole that has a yellow marked water hazard. Can see the ball. No doubt where it is and where it went in.

BUT...The post markings are not right up to the edge of the water and there is a strip of land between the water and the line of the posts. My playing partner wanted to drop the ball on this strip. I said no as he would still be droping in the hazard and you have to drop at the point outside the hazard were it went in keeping the pin etc all in line.

He couldnt see this was correct, but i was taught that if no yellow or red line is available on the ground you use a line from post to post. If some land is within that area that also is in the hazard, but you have to drop outside.

Hopefully that was correct!!

Then later when i was discussing this with someone he said that there were instances where you can drop in a hazard. I said yes like a flodded bunker etc, BUT he also said that if in the case above the best place behind the water hazard was in another hazard (i know highly unlikely)...he could have droped it in there. I doubted this but the rule does say that you only re drop if the ball rolls into a hazard, but does not cover if you actually drop purposly.

I think my friend was just being cleaver....or was he??

 

[Ethan]

The margin of the hazard is often on dry land, and there is often a strip of land. But you are correct. The drop is made in reference to the margin of the hazard, not the water line. And the margin is taken as the line between posts if not specifically marked.

You are also correct about a drop from a flooded bunker, but you must still drop in the bunker.

You cannot take relief and drop into another hazard. If the ball rolls in to one, you redrop. If it rolls in again, you place at the point of contact. That is why you sometimes see the caddy standing in the hazard when the player is dropping on a slope down to the hazard.

 

[alexgolf]

The margin of the hazard is often on dry land, and there is often a strip of land. But you are correct. The drop is made in reference to the margin of the hazard, not the water line. And the margin is taken as the line between posts if not specifically marked.

You are also correct about a drop from a flooded bunker, but you must still drop in the bunker.

You cannot take relief and drop into another hazard. If the ball rolls in to one, you redrop. If it rolls in again, you place at the point of contact. That is why you sometimes see the caddy standing in the hazard when the player is dropping on a slope down to the hazard.

Hi Eathan

Thanks for this and it confirms most of what i thought

But what my friend was saying was not abot dropping the ball and then it rolling ito a hazard, he was on about actually dropping it into a hazard on purpose if that was the best place to drop.

In my mind this is the same as it rolling into a hazard but you can see the slight diference

 

[freddielong]

That was covered in Eathan's first point you are taking releif from the hazard, therefore it has to be dropped outside the hazard

 

[Kellfire]

What if an entire bunker is flooded, where would you drop that ball?

 

[freddielong]

The you have to drop outside the bunker but under penalty of 1 shot (unfair but true)

 

[bobmac]

Or, drop it in another part of the bunker that isn't too deep with water

 

[Robobum]

Get the waterproofs on and have a slash (or 3) at it!!!!

 

[freddielong]

Or, drop it in another part of the bunker that isn't too deep with water

Bob is that allowed, as the initial drop is free releif from the water

 

[bobmac]

Or, drop it in another part of the bunker that isn't too deep with water

Bob is that allowed, as the initial drop is free releif from the water

25-1b/8

If a player's ball lies in a bunker completely covered by casual water, what are his options?

The player may play the ball as it lies or: (1) drop the ball in the bunker without penalty at the nearest point, not nearer the hole, where the depth of the casual water is least – Rule 25-1b(ii)(a); or (2) drop the ball behind the bunker under penalty of one stroke – Rule 25-1b(ii)(b); or (3) declare the ball unplayable and proceed in accordance with Rule 28.

 

[freddielong]

Ok if you are gonna get all legal on me...........

Thanks for that fella I didnt realise that

 

[Down_The_Middle]

At my club if your ball lands in a flooded bunker we have a couple of local rules if you cant drop it in the bunker,they are

1- you can drop it in the bunker nearer the hole if thats the only place available

2- If the bunker is completely flooded drop the ball outside of bunker between point of entry and flag (no penalty)

 

[viscount17]

25-1b/8

If a player's ball lies in a bunker completely covered by casual water, what are his options?

The player may play the ball as it lies or: (1) drop the ball in the bunker without penalty at the nearest point, not nearer the hole, where the depth of the casual water is least – Rule 25-1b(ii)(a); or (2) drop the ball behind the bunker under penalty of one stroke – Rule 25-1b(ii)(b); or (3) declare the ball unplayable and proceed in accordance with Rule 28.

I take it then that DTM's committee are busting both parts of the rule and is this one where they can use a local rule?

presumably if the only shallow/unflooded area is nearer the hole then you have to take either of the penalty options?

 

[Tommo21]

At my club if your ball lands in a flooded bunker we have a couple of local rules if you cant drop it in the bunker,they are

1- you can drop it in the bunker nearer the hole if thats the only place available

2- If the bunker is completely flooded drop the ball outside of bunker between point of entry and flag (no penalty)

Dont know if you can overrule that, drop outside a flooded bunker, no penalty...unless it's marked GUR.

 

[freddielong]

I thought that at first, but you can create local rules for wet ground GUR and course condition so I guess it kind of comes in that

 

[bobmac]

Steve. As usual with the rules, the deeper you delve the more grey areas you encounter.
e.g.
33-8/27 (off the top of my head )

"The Committee may not make a Local Rule providing generally that flooded bunkers are ground under repair through the green as such a Local Rule waives a penalty imposed by the Rules of Golf, contrary to Rule 33-8b."
But it then goes on to say
"However, in conditions of extreme wetness, where certain specific bunkers are completely flooded prior to the competition commencing and there is no reasonable likelihood of the bunkers drying up during the competition, the Committee may, in such exceptional circumstances, introduce a Local Rule providing that specific bunkers, which are known to be flooded prior to the competition commencing, are deemed to be ground under repair and classified as through the green. Therefore relief may be taken outside these bunkers without penalty in accordance with Rule 25-1b(i)"

In English, I take that to mean a comittee may make specific bunkers that are prone to flooding GUR but may not make it a general ruling for all bunkers some of which may drain well.
One last point for DTMiddle.

A Rule of Golf must not be waived by a Local Rule. However, if a Committee considers that local abnormal conditions interfere with the proper playing of the game to the extent that it is necessary to make a Local Rule that modifies the Rules of Golf, the Local Rule must be authorised by the R&A.

 

[viscount17]

Bob, I'd read that as ' you can make a specific bunker GUR if at the time of the comp it is flooded but you cannot make the same bunker GUR just because it can or might flood.'

possibly what DTM has are some sort of general rules that they apply for casual rounds but hopefully when it's a comp the full spite is applied.

 

[Leftie]

The you have to drop outside the bunker but under penalty of 1 shot (unfair but true)

Not unfair at all..

You are in a hazard that was specifically put there to punish you if you put your ball there. Why should you get free relief if there is a bit of moisture there? Are you going to call a committee meeting to discuss whether the bunker is totally "flooded", just puddled in places, or only damp? Oh gosh - that looks like a bit of dampness there. I'll take a free drop outside thank you!

For similar reasons, there is no relief from divots. A divot could be classed as anything from a hardly visible scrape in the grass to a 6" excavation. Who decides?

The rules are there and have been honed over the years (and are still being revised) to make the game as equitable as possible. You may feel it harsh that you might have to have a free re-drop in the bunker or, if not possible due to all the bunker being flooded, a drop under penalty outside but you still have the option of playing it as it lies or going back and replaying the shot. Spoilt for choice or what?

 

[bobmac]

Golfers shouldn't really face this problem in the first place.
If on the morning of a competition, a bunker is filling up fast as it's lashing down and the forecast is more rain all day then the a sign should go up on the first tee telling everyone that that/those bunkers are GUR.
Bunkers dont suddenly fill up.
DTMiddle, I would question your green staff if you have too many bunkers flooding and get the drainage sorted out.
Until then, your club shouldn't introduce local rules to cover eventualities that are already covered by the rule book.
Dropping nearer the hole?????

 

[alexgolf]

That was covered in Eathan's first point you are taking releif from the hazard, therefore it has to be dropped outside the hazard

Hi All

I have been away at a trade show for a few days so this is the first time i have had to catch up with the thread.

Lots of good comment esp about Flooded bunkers which i know causes distress about taking a penality if you have to drop outside if it is flodded.

My way of thinking about this is that there is actually no such thing as a bunker, just HAZARDS. If a red or yellow ditch is dry you can play out of that if you can without taking a drop so it is the same thing really.

But one of my points has still not been covered. The quote above is correct about not dropping the ball back in the hazard you are in, but can you drop it in another hazard if you want to!! As i said before highly unlikely but can it be done.

The rule states it has to roll into a hazard. See the diference.

Anymore thoughts??