What's the difference?

[Titleist3]

Hi all,


Just wondering what your opinion is regarding the difference between a scratch handicap player, a 10 handicap, a 20 handicap.


Look forward to hearing your thoughts

 

[SaintHacker]

About 20 shots

 

[PJ87]

id say difference between a 20 handicapper and a 10 handicapper is dispersion of shots.. 20 will be more over the place where as a 10 handicapper will be much more consistent

a difference between a 10 handicapper and scratch will be chipping, putting and mental side of the game

they will chip closer.. putt less and if they make a mistake they will find a way to make it as least costly as possible. then look to make up for the mistake

 

[TreeSeeker]

most of the ~10 handicap's i've played with have been near scratch and going the other way. So they tended to have outstanding short game, but were shorter off the tee so having to hit harder shots in.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I play off 4, I am infinitely better than I was when I played off 10.
The leap from 20 to 10 and 10 to scratch are massive.
You have to take into account the buffer zones get smaller each category you go down, and each shot under css reduces by smaller amounts each category.
I am not close to being scratch, even though I have played to par several times.

I wouldn’t dare tell you what a scratch player does a 10 doesn’t because I don’t know and that’s probably why I’m not one!

 

[User101]

Consistency, FACT !

Don't be thinking a scratch golfer is knocking the stick out all the way, he ain't and don't be thinking the ten is chapping about the trees. The scratch is likely down the middle most of the time, the ten probably leaks the odd drive here and there.

The 20, should be playing bowls.

 

[Hobbit]

I guess you could express the differences by how many shot below CSS a player has to shoot to make the transition from one handicap to another.

To get from 5 to scratch means shooting 50 under CSS. To get from 10 to 5 means shooting 25 under CSS.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I guess you could express the differences by how many shot below CSS a player has to shoot to make the transition from one handicap to another.

To get from 5 to scratch means shooting 50 under CSS. To get from 10 to 5 means shooting 25 under CSS.

Kind of what I was getting at, but far more eloquent- as per usual.

 

[duncan mackie]

The difference between Scr and 1 is probably bigger than the difference between 10 and 20.

 

[User20205]

The difference between Scr and 1 is probably bigger than the difference between 10 and 20.

I don’t disagree with this. Anyone with time to play/practice could get to 10. Given they have all the correct limbs in all the correct places. You’ve just got to keep it in play.
To play off scratch you have to be able to hit a variety of shots that are condition/requirement dependent.
Wherever ever I play with anyone approaching scratch they are so much better than me it’s scary, and according to handicap there’s only 7 shots in it. Those 7 shots are a massive gulf.

 

[Marshy77]

Purely from an observational point of view from a 26 handicapper who should be playing bowls....

We played Rudding and Harrogate this weekend on our annual social, in my 3ball was my mate plays off scratch and the other off 9 - both fantastic strikers of the ball but the scratch player is just that bit more special.

We were walking up the 18th, both similar distance in drives both with a short club in to the green. A 4ball were walking up with us as they'd played a play off in a comp on one of the holes. Both players hit their shots and as soon as the scratch player had hit his all 4 remarked that he must be a lower handicap player, said he was off scratch and they all said you can tell by the ease of the swing.

I think the difference is the way they can hit certain shots, chip closer and not get into as much trouble although saying that I think because they know their swing so well the smallest thing can lead to a wayward shot and also they have less room for error and scoring. The scratch player made more birdie's yet didn't score as well as the 9 on the days, seemed like it was birdie/par or blob but he doesn't take our weekends as serious as others as he feels its just an opportunity to play with mates.

 

[Orikoru]

+1 for 'consistency'. Me and my similar-handicap buddies are more than capable of cracking it on the green in regulation with a couple of lovely shots - but it only happens 3 or 4 times a round. The trickier shots probably have a 1 in 5 chance of coming off perfectly for us, whereas your scratch player is hitting it nicely most of the time. We can chip it to 2 feet occasionally, or leave it well short or knock it well past, whereas a scratch player is likely to get close most of the time. If you're at 20 handicap, you can play golf in my opinion, and from there it's all about hitting it well more and more often, which is the definition of consistency.

Whenever I play with a low handicapper (say 5 or 6), they're never spectacular and shooting the lights out, it's just quietly consistent - very few silly mistakes, very few miss-hits. I don't even notice the fact they're playing well until I see their card.

 

[jim8flog]

One thing for sure it is not about the ability to hit big distances. I hit the ball further as a 16 handicapper than as a 6 handicapper and can say the same about a few players I have known for many years, although loss of distance is the primary reason why I am no longer a 6 handicapper.

What keeps my handicap down to it's current level is my short game but there again my short game was better when I was a 16 handicapper.

So if I was to summarise my own thoughts it is mainly down to course management and accuracy. 20 yards short and on the fairway is better than 20 yards wide and in the thick stuff.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I don’t disagree with this. Anyone with time to play/practice could get to 10. Given they have all the correct limbs in all the correct places. You’ve just got to keep it in play.
To play off scratch you have to be able to hit a variety of shots that are condition/requirement dependent.
Wherever ever I play with anyone approaching scratch they are so much better than me it’s scary, and according to handicap there’s only 7 shots in it. Those 7 shots are a massive gulf.

Just what Hogan said in his book about the 'average' golfer and breaking 80.

 

[Capella]

You need the physical ability to reach greens in reg, though. Maybe this comes more into play in the ladies game (and for people of all genders who start playing golf as seniors without much prior athletic experience).

I might be a bit of a hopeless case, but of the 18 holes on our course, there are just 3 that I can reach in regulation (two short par 3s and our shortest par 4 if I hit driver and a heck of a 3 wood). Even if everything else works, that adds a baselin of 14 shots to every round. You'd have to be a heck of an iron/short game player to get to single figures that way. And I am really not alone in this. Actually most women my age at our club are in the same situation (except for those who started golf when they were young or who have played tennis or hockey or something like that before they started). And I can still outhit my dad who started playing as a senior and is in his seventies now. Saying "anyone could get to 10" is just not true.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

You need the physical ability to reach greens in reg, though. Maybe this comes more into play in the ladies game (and for people of all genders who start playing golf as seniors without much prior athletic experience).

I might be a bit of a hopeless case, but of the 18 holes on our course, there are just 3 that I can reach in regulation (two short par 3s and our shortest par 4 if I hit driver and a heck of a 3 wood). Even if everything else works, that adds a baselin of 14 shots to every round. You'd have to be a heck of an iron/short game player to get to single figures that way. And I am really not alone in this. Actually most women my age at our club are in the same situation (except for those who started golf when they were young or who have played tennis or hockey or something like that before they started). And I can still outhit my dad who started playing as a senior and is in his seventies now. Saying "anyone could get to 10" is just not true.

Capella - You are not alone in this. At my place, off the whites, the shortest par 4 is 400yds. I am not alone in being unable to reach the greens in 2 so straight away you at your place, me at mine and others in similar situations are almost a shot behind on those holes. Our issue, no one else's and not looking for sympathy but as you say it does make getting to 10 bloomin hard, not as simple as 'keep it in play'.

The simple answer is to move courses to a shorter one but there are other reasons why we play at the courses we do.

I would also add, to is quite simple for people good at a sport to state, 'it is easy to get to a particular level'. I have been good at other sports and struggled to understand why others could not do basics elements. It is why sport is a challenge. What is simple for some is hard for others.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

The difference is massive and if you play with anyone near zero you will see it.

I am miles from a handicap of 0 but when I have broken par, I look back and most of the time I just think that was a crazy and lucky round. I have either hit loads of GIR, sunk masses of putts, had a lot of luck or getting up/down almost everytime. You need to be doing it a lot. My problem is, is that I can't do it regularly round to round, as my game is to sloppy, I would need to improve every part of my game massively(from swing, pitching, chipping, sand play, putting). Have neither the time or the inclination to improve would be the truth, I play for fun.

To get to 5-10 level, you need to keep it in play on average, don't waste shots(silly duffs for instance), be okay at all parts of your game, probably carry the ball over 180 yards with driver. Depending where you are in 5-10 depends on the level you need to be better, towards the lower end you normally find that the person will be very good at one area of the game, like driving or chipping or putting but probably will still have a relatively weak area(s).

Think Hobbit made a very good post, of how hard it is to get to zero.

 

[the_coach]

Hi all,


Just wondering what your opinion is regarding the difference between a scratch handicap player, a 10 handicap, a 20 handicap.


Look forward to hearing your thoughts

speaking from the point of view from the other side of scratch

the difference between a scratch index & a 10 is exponentially greater than the difference between a 10 & a 20 index
even the difference between say a 6 or 5 to scratch is massively more than the distance between 20 to 10 index

the difference from a scratch index to where i am is again massive (think that the tour players you all watch on broadcasts are approx the equivalent to a +10 & above - when you take in to account both the length of the tracks plus the difficulty of the greens they play on week to week)

the actual difference with scratch or plus index players is all about the quality of the individual swing motion techniques being able to find center strike at generally much higher swing speeds that produce a totally different flight trajectory & total distance with tight control of peak height/carry (with that the complete knowledge of the carry distance of each club through the bag to within a a few yards)

so through the bag it's simply is about the quality of strike & distance control & the ability to start the ball online with control of curvature

then it's also about having a much tighter short game 120 yards & in - better recovery abilities (from traps & rough) through better decision making along with technique

& a better putting technique face & path control (big key to this is distance control on greens) plus very sound green reading ability

all of the above right through the bag goes hand in hand with a better grip hold on the handle better set-up (posture/alignments) the ability to aim at target

& along with all of that a better mental control & emotional control in play which is built over time simply because the strike is better so you have a bank of memory of majority of shots goin where you intended them to

plus usually much better course management & shot decision making

 

[r0wly86]

I play off of 8, and after a recent lesson I can see that my swing is garbage, and it's just a bit of natural talent correcting all the mistakes at impact time that I can get down to where I am. That and a reasonable short game.

A 20 handicapper will be a mixture of poor swing leading to wild shots and throwing away sill shots, and/or a bad short game. I played with a 15 handicapper and I don't think he had 3 holes where he had fewer than 3 putts.

A 10 handicapper will just be consistent, they like me don't have to have a good swing but keep it in play.

A cat 1 golfer will be again far more consistent than a 10 handicapper, will hit most green GIR and rarely have a proper bad shot. There swing will be much better than the 10 handicapper as it will have to be to get the consistency.

A scratch golfer should have nearly perfect control over their swing. When I played Bearwood lakes there was a person who plays on the Alpine Tour and in the range just every shot he hit was such a pure strike. He didn't hit further than me, I may have even had a few yard on him, but my dispersion was huge, you could throw a blanket over his 6 irons shots

 

[Jacko_G]

The difference between Scr and 1 is probably bigger than the difference between 10 and 20.

I totally disagree with this statement.

The difference is only 1 shot. Hardly massive. The difference between scratch and 4 is huge but between scratch and 1 is not a huge gulf. I've played with scratch golfers who are simply sublime, everything they do is absolute class. On the odd occasion that they get out of position its a simple shot to get back into position/play. The course management is excellent. Likewise with 1 handicap golfers.

CSS & SSS at certain clubs also make it easier to maintain that level of handicap. I've played with better 1 handicap golfers who are members of tough courses than scratch golfers who play at "easier" courses.